From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 24239 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2022 18:53:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Mar 2022 18:53:56 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 295F39D016; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 04:53:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A304E9CFD0; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 04:51:27 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="qOsYaT1a"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 938D19CFD0; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 04:51:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-f46.google.com (mail-ua1-f46.google.com [209.85.222.46]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FDEF9CC02 for ; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 04:51:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-f46.google.com with SMTP id y1so1182678uap.4 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2022 10:51:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=X3sHGYqpWm2Rt9Yr2DbVSkyLAWn6sJi+K/MWsHh04r0=; b=qOsYaT1a4zrmoh4YHSJLPsyi5STVNZvgSik/frwqdR5a49ri50G8vfNJte9ujui28D WOAWSMx8+nwB4Yr+eUIlaUMHPGbswCXZOc5zhLciRG4VSuNLZ6KooX8zdznVq5v6mC+G DFrZm8PM5ohPq2dT4v4xI91o5o8OZ2yTEYnfhDyv2eJ1lBcIevyFl32bJvOb1x8sY5JT LHjIUiKP2SIWvSSGFY7vOeIGb+uu6jyCURhmZnlGWwmdId2RWJy0pwWWtGYjhleN8rGx 1/NK8CC16XNapxIj4G3OjPz08TJMWwWW7ndB24qyd+OQzSYcG8y3eqlm9X5bjO/LdyHZ QMDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=X3sHGYqpWm2Rt9Yr2DbVSkyLAWn6sJi+K/MWsHh04r0=; b=Krnf9nJ7n6LtmlzDRHj5FO+VhyKm6j7TQEdLN24+vqT/Wpk59/CtsoIUKuvhgj0vGg /K7Olq50k5TgI6mvDpEg87vPZ2z4NcKpUDGR3PNjGaITTYT8xai+Rr2JHCxXdfVEiEhA 3/IxFgGq9NARC2xOf3OggegTqzVuOuS7dnH42sLsIGax+CYxs8XXotzy9pjpDOVBD4Kz tUlwy+CGEijOqENmhv+HkanMjIzzDZ+pUTC9xMllMaUBDyRanEAgerkd6la3Ff/n179J n5A4IFCPzSp0Zfm6+whMAPHt60BaTheOchnLTMx06z1XLK68rrkOYtD761AY29PDCLjc sxIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5314QvoAHb3AL0idxh+I3M7WUNL1H0EuWjLDeeu2qrM3BDE1fOG5 scRYEYbx0iUixq8yO0SrWvEQt98BfNE87EoEzRc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxwg+qzWNG3I0fxExg4tA9cEfGaEP/WnO0hmaBfe+ULiDVfSz6bvhUA4hvTJAigEdtfZ2WCj5of+2HhmFBtnvo= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:72c5:0:b0:34a:42a7:b1d3 with SMTP id g5-20020ab072c5000000b0034a42a7b1d3mr453677uap.46.1646247082516; Wed, 02 Mar 2022 10:51:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab0:6955:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:51:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Paul Winalski Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2022 13:51:21 -0500 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Pipes and PRISM X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 3/1/22, Clem Cole wrote: > Btw look at Mach if you want to understand nt. The Mach and Nt tasks are > very lightweight and primitive so you can build much more complex processes > from them > That's correct, Dave Cutler was very impressed by Mach's microkernel idea and used it to implement VAXeln, a VAX OS for real-time applications (VMS had grown too heavyweight to properly support real-time). He used the same design for MICA and later NT. Cutler had a lot of fights with the Windows developers. They were used to MS-DOS, where there was a single application running with no memory protection, so it could do whatever it pleased as long as it left the system in a usable state when it exited. Windows did cooperative multitasking and it was common practice to insert hooks to intercept system events and procedures. Cutler told them, no, there will be no hooks into the NT privileged kernel--use the system service calls provided by the NT API. Over time, the NT microkernel and the layers on top of it have become less distinct, but the original concept of a microkernel with personality modules on top of it remains. That idea came from Mach. -Paul W.