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* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
@ 2019-11-02 14:12 Doug McIlroy
  2019-11-02 20:12 ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Doug McIlroy @ 2019-11-02 14:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

Full disclosure: I served as a character witness at Robert Morris's trial.
Before the trial, the judge was quite incredulous that the prosecutor
was pursuing a felony charge and refused to let the trial go forward
without confirmation from the prosecutor's superiors in Washington.

> I'm sure that Bob was proud of his son's accomplishments -- but not
that one.

As Bob ut it, "It {being the father] is not a great career move."
Robert confessed to Bob as soon as he realized the folly of loosing
an exponential, even with a tiny growth rate per generation. I 
believe that what brought computers to their knees was the
overwhelming number of attacks, not the cost of cecryption. The
worm did assure that only one copy would be allowed to proceed
at a time.

During high school, Robert worked as a summer employee for Fred
Grampp. He got high marks for finding and correcting an exploit.

> making use of known vulnerabilities

Buffer overflows were known to cause misbehavior, but few people
at the time were conscious that the misbehavior could be controlled.
I do not know whether Berkeley agonized before distributing the
"debug" feature that allowed remote super-user access via sendmail.
But they certainly messed up by not documenting it.

Doug

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-02 14:12 [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm Doug McIlroy
@ 2019-11-02 20:12 ` Warner Losh
  2019-11-03 17:12   ` Paul Winalski
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2019-11-02 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Doug McIlroy; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 8:13 AM Doug McIlroy <doug@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> Full disclosure: I served as a character witness at Robert Morris's trial.
> Before the trial, the judge was quite incredulous that the prosecutor
> was pursuing a felony charge and refused to let the trial go forward
> without confirmation from the prosecutor's superiors in Washington.
>
> > I'm sure that Bob was proud of his son's accomplishments -- but not
> that one.
>
> As Bob ut it, "It {being the father] is not a great career move."
> Robert confessed to Bob as soon as he realized the folly of loosing
> an exponential, even with a tiny growth rate per generation. I
> believe that what brought computers to their knees was the
> overwhelming number of attacks, not the cost of cecryption. The
> worm did assure that only one copy would be allowed to proceed
> at a time.
>
> During high school, Robert worked as a summer employee for Fred
> Grampp. He got high marks for finding and correcting an exploit.
>
> > making use of known vulnerabilities
>
> Buffer overflows were known to cause misbehavior, but few people
> at the time were conscious that the misbehavior could be controlled.
> I do not know whether Berkeley agonized before distributing the
> "debug" feature that allowed remote super-user access via sendmail.
> But they certainly messed up by not documenting it.
>

Yes. The reason people freaked out when the worm came out was because it
was the first one to hit the scene. The exploints that allowed it to
propagate were known to a few, but the notion of a self propagating thing
was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places
prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving
vectors of BBS). It caught a lot of people off guard with their pants down,
and it took a bunch of time to rectify (because it would reinfect if you
weren't careful). That's why people wanted to prosecute on felony charges.
But there was no intent to cause harm, and there was, at the time, no
applicable law that could be used to charge as a felony anyway (apart from
vague denial of property statues, which were at best a stretch).

In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,
but Robert just got there first. Any number of people could have written it
given the extremely lax security profiles of the time (things are better
today, but we are not immune to buffer overflows or privilege escalation
attacks).

Warner

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<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 8:13 AM Doug McIlroy &lt;<a href="mailto:doug@cs.dartmouth.edu">doug@cs.dartmouth.edu</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Full disclosure: I served as a character witness at Robert Morris&#39;s trial.<br>
Before the trial, the judge was quite incredulous that the prosecutor<br>
was pursuing a felony charge and refused to let the trial go forward<br>
without confirmation from the prosecutor&#39;s superiors in Washington.<br>
<br>
&gt; I&#39;m sure that Bob was proud of his son&#39;s accomplishments -- but not<br>
that one.<br>
<br>
As Bob ut it, &quot;It {being the father] is not a great career move.&quot;<br>
Robert confessed to Bob as soon as he realized the folly of loosing<br>
an exponential, even with a tiny growth rate per generation. I <br>
believe that what brought computers to their knees was the<br>
overwhelming number of attacks, not the cost of cecryption. The<br>
worm did assure that only one copy would be allowed to proceed<br>
at a time.<br>
<br>
During high school, Robert worked as a summer employee for Fred<br>
Grampp. He got high marks for finding and correcting an exploit.<br>
<br>
&gt; making use of known vulnerabilities<br>
<br>
Buffer overflows were known to cause misbehavior, but few people<br>
at the time were conscious that the misbehavior could be controlled.<br>
I do not know whether Berkeley agonized before distributing the<br>
&quot;debug&quot; feature that allowed remote super-user access via sendmail.<br>
But they certainly messed up by not documenting it.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes. The reason people freaked out when the worm came out was because it was the first one to hit the scene. The exploints that allowed it to propagate were known to a few, but the notion of a self propagating thing was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving vectors of BBS). It caught a lot of people off guard with their pants down, and it took a bunch of time to rectify (because it would reinfect if you weren&#39;t careful). That&#39;s why people wanted to prosecute on felony charges. But there was no intent to cause harm, and there was, at the time, no applicable law that could be used to charge as a felony anyway (apart from vague denial of property statues, which were at best a stretch).</div><div><br></div><div>In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was, but Robert just got there first. Any number of people could have written it given the extremely lax security profiles of the time (things are better today, but we are not immune to buffer overflows or privilege escalation attacks). </div><div><br></div><div>Warner</div></div></div>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-02 20:12 ` Warner Losh
@ 2019-11-03 17:12   ` Paul Winalski
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Paul Winalski @ 2019-11-03 17:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Doug McIlroy

On 11/2/19, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
> the notion of a self propagating thing
> was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places
> prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving
> vectors of BBS).

Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back
to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles.  Self-submitting OS/360 JCL
jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with
jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world.

> In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,
> but Robert just got there first.

Again, first on the Internet.  Back in 1980 I accidentally took down
DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,
at the time) with a worm.  The network used DECnet Phase 2, which
didn't have built-in packet routing.  If you wanted to talk to a
machine that wasn't physically connected to yours, you had to
explicitly specify the packet route.  Network topology maps were thus
very valuable.

All of the VAXen on the network were configured with an unprivileged
default DECnet account that was used for any connection that didn't
explicitly specify a username/password.  One could copy arbitrary DCL
command procedures (VMS's equivalent of shell scripts) to a machine
and execute them there.  I wrote a script to collect the raw
information for making a network topology map.  The script did this:

[1] Display the local DECnet connections and send this information
back over the network link.
[2] For each adjacent network node:
[2a]  Copy the script to that node.
[2b]  Execute the remote copy, sending its info back over the network link.

The problem, of course, is I had forgotten that network adjacency is
commutative.  I ran the script on node A, which told me that A is
connected to B and C.  It then told me that B was connected to A, D,
and E.  Then that A is connected to B and C....  I realized what had
happened immediately, but it was already too late.  The network had to
be taken down, the nodes cleared of the scripts, and then reconnected.
We learned the hard way that although the non-privileged default
DECnet accounts couldn't damage the system, they could be exploited
for what we now call DDoS attacks.

Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's compiler group.
The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident.
So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his
UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.

-Paul W.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
@ 2019-11-13 13:47 Doug McIlroy
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Doug McIlroy @ 2019-11-13 13:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

Most of this post is off topic; the conclusion is not.

On the afternoon of Martin Luther King Day, 1990, AT&T's
backbone network slowed to a crawl. The cause: a patch intended
to save time when a switch that had taken itself off line (a
rare, but routine and almost imperceptible event) rejoined the
network. The patch was flawed; a lock should have been taken
one instruction sooner.

Bell Labs had tested the daylights out of the patch by
subjecting a real switch in the lab to tortuously heavy, but
necessarily artificial loads. It may also have been tested on
a switch in the wild before the patch was deployed throughout
the network, but that would not have helped.

The trouble was that a certain sequence of events happening
within milliseconds on calls both ways between two heavily
loaded switches could evoke a ping-pong of the switches leaving
and rejoining the network.

The phenomenon was contagious because of the enhanced odds of a
third switch experiencing the bad sequence with a switch that
was repeatedly taking itself off line. The basic problem (and
a fortiori the contagion) had not been seen in the lab because
the lab had only one of the multimillion-dollar switches to
play with.

The meltdown was embarrassing, to say the least. Yet nobody
ever accused AT&T of idiocy for not first testing on a private
network this feature that was inadvertently "designed to
compromise" switches.

Doug

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-12 20:56 Norman Wilson
  2019-11-12 22:00 ` Dave Horsfall
@ 2019-11-13  7:35 ` arnold
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2019-11-13  7:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs, norman

Norman Wilson <norman@oclsc.org> wrote:

> I am very disappointed that programming education seems not to care
> enough about this sort of thing, even today.

I think this is the key. Universities focus (too much?) on the theory
and not enough on the practice, and "learn how to program" courses
and books focus on the mechanics (syntax, semantics) and not enough
(or at all) on the practicum of writing code well.

We continue to rely on the school of hard knocks, and we continue
to pay for this reliance.

I also think there's a sliding scale. The fancier or higher-end
the university, the more the focus on theory, and vice versa. Sigh.

Arnold


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
@ 2019-11-12 22:24 Norman Wilson
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Norman Wilson @ 2019-11-12 22:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

Dave Horsfall:

  And for those who slagged me off for calling him an idiot, try this quick 
  quiz: on a scale from utter moron to sheer genius, what do you call 
  someone who deliberately releases untested software designed to compromise 
  machines that are not under his administrative control in order to make 
  some sort of a point?

=====

I'd call that careless and irresponsible.  Calling it stupid or
idiotic is, well, a stupid, idiotic simplification that succeeds
in being nasty without showing any understanding of the real problem.

Carelessness and irresponsibility are characteristic of people
in their late teens and early 20s, i.e. Robert's age at the time.
Many of us are overly impressed with our own brilliance at that
age, and even when we take some care (as I think Robert did) we
don't always take enough (as he certainly didn't).

Anyone who claims not to have been at least a bit irresponsible
and careless when young is, in my opinion, not being honest.  Some
of my former colleagues at Bell Labs weren't always as careful and
responsible as they should be, even to the point of causing harm
to others.  But to their credit, when they screwed up that way they
owned up to having done so, tried to make amends, and tried to do
better in future, just as Robert did.  It was just Robert's bad
luck that he screwed up in such a public way and did harm to so
many people.

I save my scorn for those who are long past that age and still
behave irresponsibly and harmfully, like certain high politicians
and certain high-tech executives.

Probably future discussion of this should move to COFF unless it
relates directly to the culture and doings in 1127 or other historic
UNIX places.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-12 20:56 Norman Wilson
@ 2019-11-12 22:00 ` Dave Horsfall
  2019-11-13  7:35 ` arnold
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2019-11-12 22:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019, Norman Wilson wrote:

> I think I recall an explicit statement somewhere from an interview with 
> Robert that the worm was inspired partly by Shockwave Rider.

Yes, I noticed the similarity too.

> I confess my immediate reaction to the worm was uncontrollable laughter. 
> I was out of town when it happened, so I first heard it from a newspaper 
> article (and wasn't caught up in fighting it or I'd have laughed a lot 
> less, of course); and it seemed to me hilarious when I read that Robert 
> was behind it.  He had interned with 1127 for a few summers while I was 
> there, so I knew him as very bright but often a bit careless about 
> details; that seemed an exact match for the worm.

That was the trouble; had he bothered to test it on a private network (as 
if a true professional would even consider carrying out such an act)[*] he 
would've noticed that his probability calculations were arse-backwards, 
and so spread much faster than it "should" have.

> My longer-term reaction was to completely drop my sloppy old habit 
> (common in those days not just in my code but in that of many others) of 
> ignoring possible buffer overflows. I find it mind-boggling that people 
> still make that mistake; it has been literal decades since the lesson 
> was rubbed in our community's collective noses.  I am very disappointed 
> that programming education seems not to care enough about this sort of 
> thing, even today.

Yep.  Don't use fixed-length buffers unless you *know* that it will
not overflow (i.e. the data is under your control), and don't trust
user input (especially if the reader is an interpreter with the
possibility of spawning a shell); there are of course others.

This is what you get when people call themselves programmers because
they once took a course in programming or read a book; that's like
calling oneself a doctor because you took a first-aid course...

One of my favourite examples is "Barbie the Computer Engineer" (grep the 
net for it, but warning: the title contains a naughty word).

Oh, OK; here's a sanitised URL:

    http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/11/barbie-fks-it-up-again/

Yes, that really is the URL; I've just tested it (but contents may offend
some viewers; you have been warned).

[*]
And for those who slagged me off for calling him an idiot, try this quick 
quiz: on a scale from utter moron to sheer genius, what do you call 
someone who deliberately releases untested software designed to compromise 
machines that are not under his administrative control in order to make 
some sort of a point?  I don't know about other countries, but try that in 
Australia and you'd be seriously out of pocket and/or doing porridge.

-- Dave (BSc, majoring in Computer Science and Mathematics)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
@ 2019-11-12 20:56 Norman Wilson
  2019-11-12 22:00 ` Dave Horsfall
  2019-11-13  7:35 ` arnold
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Norman Wilson @ 2019-11-12 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

I think I recall an explicit statement somewhere from an
interview with Robert that the worm was inspired partly
by Shockwave Rider.

I confess my immediate reaction to the worm was uncontrollable
laughter.  I was out of town when it happened, so I first
heard it from a newspaper article (and wasn't caught up in
fighting it or I'd have laughed a lot less, of course); and
it seemed to me hilarious when I read that Robert was behind
it.  He had interned with 1127 for a few summers while I was
there, so I knew him as very bright but often a bit careless
about details; that seemed an exact match for the worm.

My longer-term reaction was to completely drop my sloppy
old habit (common in those days not just in my code but in
that of many others) of ignoring possible buffer overflows.
I find it mind-boggling that people still make that mistake;
it has been literal decades since the lesson was rubbed in
our community's collective noses.  I am very disappointed
that programming education seems not to care enough about
this sort of thing, even today.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-06 10:37           ` arnold
@ 2019-11-06 13:35             ` Ronald Natalie
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Ronald Natalie @ 2019-11-06 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: arnold; +Cc: tuhs

The WIZ hack was well known by the time the worm exploited it.    I’d recompiled sendmail to get rid of it even being an option on all the machines directly under my control.    The 750 in question was operated ostensibly by the JVNCNet people, but I had the root pasword (I guess I really didn’t need it with that security hole in it anyhow).

> On Nov 6, 2019, at 5:37 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> 
> Ronald Natalie <ron@ronnatalie.com> wrote:
> 
>> We got hit at Rutgers on some of our ancillary machines early in the day ...
> 
> Our Unix systems (Emory U. Computer Center and Math/CS systems) were running
> a custom sendmail config that I wrote, so the worm bypassed us. We were lucky. :-)
> 
> Arnold


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-05 16:04         ` Ronald Natalie
@ 2019-11-06 10:37           ` arnold
  2019-11-06 13:35             ` Ronald Natalie
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2019-11-06 10:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: stewart, ron; +Cc: tuhs

Ronald Natalie <ron@ronnatalie.com> wrote:

> We got hit at Rutgers on some of our ancillary machines early in the day ...

Our Unix systems (Emory U. Computer Center and Math/CS systems) were running
a custom sendmail config that I wrote, so the worm bypassed us. We were lucky. :-)

Arnold

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-05  3:48       ` Lawrence Stewart
@ 2019-11-05 16:04         ` Ronald Natalie
  2019-11-06 10:37           ` arnold
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Ronald Natalie @ 2019-11-05 16:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lawrence Stewart; +Cc: TUHS main list

We got hit at Rutgers on some of our ancillary machines early in the day (the 750 that belonged really to the the JVN computing center mostly) and I collected the evidence and learned through the internet grapevine where the vulnerabilities were and plugged them (also wrote some scripts to look for the holes and evidence of the worm on other machines at RU).    Got everything cleaned up by noon time or so and I figured that was the end.   The next day I was scheduled to be in DC on other business so I felt confident on leaving.

Apparently however, the biggest impact on us of the worm had yet to hit.   The news caught wind of it that evening and started calling the computer center early the next morning.   I wasn’t there so it pretty much chewed up all of Chuck Hedrick’s day answering press inquiries.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-04 19:24     ` Richard Salz
@ 2019-11-05  3:48       ` Lawrence Stewart
  2019-11-05 16:04         ` Ronald Natalie
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Lawrence Stewart @ 2019-11-05  3:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list

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I might have been the fan who called John Shoch and Jon Hupp’s attention to John Brunner.  At some point, Brunner came to visit PARC and we had a nice discussion about how Brunner had been able to anticipate this aspect of networking.

-Larry

> On 2019, Nov 4, at 2:24 PM, Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp paper extensively credits Brunner, and uses quotes from the book as section intro's.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 1:58 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com <mailto:bakul@bitblocks.com>> wrote:
> I am surprised no one mentioned The Shockwave Rider by John Brunner, published in 1975. Excerpt:
> 
> 


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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I <i class="">might</i> have been the fan who called John Shoch and Jon Hupp’s attention to John Brunner. &nbsp;At some point, Brunner came to visit PARC and we had a nice discussion about how Brunner had been able to anticipate this aspect of networking.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Larry<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 2019, Nov 4, at 2:24 PM, Richard Salz &lt;<a href="mailto:rich.salz@gmail.com" class="">rich.salz@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">The John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp paper extensively credits Brunner, and uses quotes from the book as section intro's.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 1:58 PM Bakul Shah &lt;<a href="mailto:bakul@bitblocks.com" class="">bakul@bitblocks.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class="">I am surprised no one mentioned <i class="">The Shockwave Rider </i>by John Brunner, published in 1975. Excerpt:<div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""></div></blockquote></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-04 18:57   ` Bakul Shah
                       ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2019-11-04 20:27     ` Dan Cross
@ 2019-11-05  0:25     ` Anthony Martin
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Anthony Martin @ 2019-11-05  0:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: TUHS main list

Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> once said:
> I have been meaning to re-read [...] Stand on Zanzibar
> but [it] would be too depressing in the present era!

I read it shortly before my first vicennial. Even though
I'm closer now to my second, I still think about it from
time to time.

"Christ, what an imagination I've got."

Cheers,
  Anthony

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-04 20:27     ` Dan Cross
@ 2019-11-04 22:10       ` Michael Kjörling
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kjörling @ 2019-11-04 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: coff; +Cc: tuhs

On 4 Nov 2019 15:27 -0500, from crossd@gmail.com (Dan Cross):
> On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 1:58 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:
>> I am surprised no one mentioned *The Shockwave Rider *by John Brunner,
>> published in 1975. Excerpt:
> 
> In the 1983 movie "Wargames", at the very end as the staff at NORAD
> desperately try and disable the rogue artificial intelligence hell-bent on
> starting World War III, at one point they make a suggestion to send a
> "tapeworm" into the system", but it's judged too risky.

In the 1984 movie _2010_, it seems using a tapeworm was more of a
standard, if unusual, procedure for solving a very different problem.

Copying from <https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/2010:_The_Year_We_Make_Contact#Dialogue>

> Dr. Chandra: I've erased all of HAL's memory from the moment the
> trouble started.
> 
> Dr. Vasili Orlov: The 9000 series uses holographic memories, so
> chronological erasures would not work.
> 
> Dr. Chandra: I made a tapeworm.
> 
> Dr. Walter Curnow: You made a what?
> 
> Dr. Chandra: It's a program that's fed into a system that will hunt
> down and destroy any desired memories.
> 
> Dr. Floyd: Wait... do you know why HAL did what he did?
> 
> Dr. Chandra: Yes. It wasn't his fault.

I also suggest to migrate this part of the discussion to COFF as it
has very little to do with UNIX history per se.

-- 
Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael@kjorling.se
  “The most dangerous thought that you can have as a creative person
              is to think you know what you’re doing.” (Bret Victor)


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-04 18:57   ` Bakul Shah
  2019-11-04 19:24     ` Richard Salz
  2019-11-04 19:25     ` SPC
@ 2019-11-04 20:27     ` Dan Cross
  2019-11-04 22:10       ` Michael Kjörling
  2019-11-05  0:25     ` Anthony Martin
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2019-11-04 20:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 1:58 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:

> I am surprised no one mentioned *The Shockwave Rider *by John Brunner,
> published in 1975. Excerpt:
>
> Then the answer dawned on him, and he almost laughed. Fluckner had
> resorted to one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in the
> continental net a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a
> denunciation group "borrowed" from a major corporation, which would shunt
> itself from one nexus to another every time his credit-code was punched
> into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a worm like that, and sometimes
> weeks.
>
>
In the 1983 movie "Wargames", at the very end as the staff at NORAD
desperately try and disable the rogue artificial intelligence hell-bent on
starting World War III, at one point they make a suggestion to send a
"tapeworm" into the system", but it's judged too risky. They ultimately
defeat the computer by getting it to play tic-tac-toe against itself and
learn that nuclear war is unwinnable.

        - Dan C.


I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don't remember much of it but this bit
> had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I have been meaning to re-read it
> along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would be too depressing in the
> present era!
>
> On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul McJones <paul@mcjones.org> wrote:
>
> Another possible source of inspiration — including the name “worm” — were
> the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox
> PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and 1982:
>
> John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
>  The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.
> Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980
> http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf
>
> John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
>  The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.
> CACM V25 N3 (March 1982)
> http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf
>
> On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 11/2/19, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
>
> the notion of a self propagating thing
> was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places
> prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving
> vectors of BBS).
>
>
> Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back
> to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles.  Self-submitting OS/360 JCL
> jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with
> jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world.
>
> In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,
> but Robert just got there first.
>
>
> Again, first on the Internet.  Back in 1980 I accidentally took down
> DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,
> at the time) with a worm.  ...
>
> Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's compiler group.
> The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident.
> So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his
> UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.
>
> -Paul W.
>
>
>
>

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<div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 1:58 PM Bakul Shah &lt;<a href="mailto:bakul@bitblocks.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bakul@bitblocks.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>I am surprised no one mentioned <i>The Shockwave Rider </i>by John Brunner, published in 1975. Excerpt:<div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>Then the answer dawned on him, and he almost laughed. Fluckner had resorted to
one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in the continental net a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a denunciation group &quot;borrowed&quot; from a
major corporation, which would shunt itself from one nexus to another every time his
credit-code was punched into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a worm like that, and
sometimes weeks.</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In the 1983 movie &quot;Wargames&quot;, at the very end as the staff at NORAD desperately try and disable the rogue artificial intelligence hell-bent on starting World War III, at one point they make a suggestion to send a &quot;tapeworm&quot; into the system&quot;, but it&#39;s judged too risky. They ultimately defeat the computer by getting it to play tic-tac-toe against itself and learn that nuclear war is unwinnable.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">        - Dan C.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div>I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don&#39;t remember much of it but this bit had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I have been meaning to re-read it along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would be too depressing in the present era!</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul McJones &lt;<a href="mailto:paul@mcjones.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">paul@mcjones.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div>Another possible source of inspiration — including the name “worm” — were the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and 1982:<div><br></div><div>John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:</div><div> The “Worm&quot; Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.</div><div>Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980</div><div><a href="http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:</div><div> The “Worm&quot; Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.</div><div>CACM V25 N3 (March 1982)</div><div><a href="http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski &lt;<a href="mailto:paul.winalski@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">paul.winalski@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br><div><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">On 11/2/19, Warner Losh &lt;</span><a href="mailto:imp@bsdimp.com" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">imp@bsdimp.com</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">&gt; wrote:</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br>the notion of a self propagating thing<br>was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places<br>prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving<br>vectors of BBS).<br></blockquote><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles.  Self-submitting OS/360 JCL</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,<br>but Robert just got there first.<br></blockquote><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Again, first on the Internet.  Back in 1980 I accidentally took down</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">DEC&#39;s internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">at the time) with a worm.  ...</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC&#39;s compiler group.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">-Paul W.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-04 18:57   ` Bakul Shah
  2019-11-04 19:24     ` Richard Salz
@ 2019-11-04 19:25     ` SPC
  2019-11-04 20:27     ` Dan Cross
  2019-11-05  0:25     ` Anthony Martin
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: SPC @ 2019-11-04 19:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: TUHS main list

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El lun., 4 nov. 2019 19:58, Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> escribió:

> I am surprised no one mentioned *The Shockwave Rider *by John Brunner,
> published in 1975.
>

What a *great* novel, as the previous of Brunner in the 60s. "Stand on
Zanzibar" and Salmanesser are guilty of my computing career. Visionary in
many ways.  You've made my day :-)

Excerpt:
>
> Then the answer dawned on him, and he almost laughed. Fluckner had
> resorted to one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in the
> continental net a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a
> denunciation group "borrowed" from a major corporation, which would shunt
> itself from one nexus to another every time his credit-code was punched
> into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a worm like that, and sometimes
> weeks.
>
>
> I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don't remember much of it but this bit
> had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I have been meaning to re-read it
> along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would be too depressing in the
> present era!
>
> On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul McJones <paul@mcjones.org> wrote:
>
> Another possible source of inspiration — including the name “worm” — were
> the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox
> PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and 1982:
>
> John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
>  The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.
> Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980
> http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf
>
> John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
>  The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.
> CACM V25 N3 (March 1982)
> http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf
>
> On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 11/2/19, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>
>
> the notion of a self propagating thing
> was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places
> prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving
> vectors of BBS).
>
>
> Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back
> to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles.  Self-submitting OS/360 JCL
> jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with
> jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world.
>
> In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,
> but Robert just got there first.
>
>
> Again, first on the Internet.  Back in 1980 I accidentally took down
> DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,
> at the time) with a worm.  ...
>
> Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's compiler group.
> The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident.
> So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his
> UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.
>
> -Paul W.
>
>
>
>

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<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El lun., 4 nov. 2019 19:58, Bakul Shah &lt;<a href="mailto:bakul@bitblocks.com">bakul@bitblocks.com</a>&gt; escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">I am surprised no one mentioned <i>The Shockwave Rider </i>by John Brunner, published in 1975. </div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What a *great* novel, as the previous of Brunner in the 60s. &quot;Stand on Zanzibar&quot; and Salmanesser are guilty of my computing career. Visionary in many ways.  You&#39;ve made my day :-)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Excerpt:<div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>Then the answer dawned on him, and he almost laughed. Fluckner had resorted to
one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in the continental net a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a denunciation group &quot;borrowed&quot; from a
major corporation, which would shunt itself from one nexus to another every time his
credit-code was punched into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a worm like that, and
sometimes weeks.</div></blockquote><div><div><br></div><div>I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don&#39;t remember much of it but this bit had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I have been meaning to re-read it along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would be too depressing in the present era!</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul McJones &lt;<a href="mailto:paul@mcjones.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">paul@mcjones.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Another possible source of inspiration — including the name “worm” — were the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and 1982:<div><br></div><div>John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:</div><div> The “Worm&quot; Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.</div><div>Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980</div><div><a href="http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:</div><div> The “Worm&quot; Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.</div><div>CACM V25 N3 (March 1982)</div><div><a href="http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski &lt;<a href="mailto:paul.winalski@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">paul.winalski@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br><div><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">On 11/2/19, Warner Losh &lt;</span><a href="mailto:imp@bsdimp.com" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">imp@bsdimp.com</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">&gt; wrote:</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br>the notion of a self propagating thing<br>was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places<br>prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving<br>vectors of BBS).<br></blockquote><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles.  Self-submitting OS/360 JCL</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,<br>but Robert just got there first.<br></blockquote><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">Again, first on the Internet.  Back in 1980 I accidentally took down</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">DEC&#39;s internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">at the time) with a worm.  ...</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC&#39;s compiler group.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">-Paul W.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-04 18:57   ` Bakul Shah
@ 2019-11-04 19:24     ` Richard Salz
  2019-11-05  3:48       ` Lawrence Stewart
  2019-11-04 19:25     ` SPC
                       ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Richard Salz @ 2019-11-04 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: TUHS main list

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The John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp paper extensively credits Brunner, and uses
quotes from the book as section intro's.

On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 1:58 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:

> I am surprised no one mentioned *The Shockwave Rider *by John Brunner,
> published in 1975. Excerpt:
>
>
>

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<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>The John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp paper extensively credits Brunner, and uses quotes from the book as section intro&#39;s.</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 1:58 PM Bakul Shah &lt;<a href="mailto:bakul@bitblocks.com">bakul@bitblocks.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">I am surprised no one mentioned <i>The Shockwave Rider </i>by John Brunner, published in 1975. Excerpt:<div><br></div><br></div></blockquote></div></div>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
  2019-11-04 18:10 ` Paul McJones
@ 2019-11-04 18:57   ` Bakul Shah
  2019-11-04 19:24     ` Richard Salz
                       ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2019-11-04 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list

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I am surprised no one mentioned The Shockwave Rider by John Brunner, published in 1975. Excerpt:

Then the answer dawned on him, and he almost laughed. Fluckner had resorted to one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in the continental net a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a denunciation group "borrowed" from a major corporation, which would shunt itself from one nexus to another every time his credit-code was punched into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a worm like that, and sometimes weeks.

I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don't remember much of it but this bit had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I have been meaning to re-read it along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would be too depressing in the present era!

> On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul McJones <paul@mcjones.org> wrote:
> 
> Another possible source of inspiration — including the name “worm” — were the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and 1982:
> 
> John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
>  The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.
> Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980
> http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf <http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf>
> 
> John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
>  The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.
> CACM V25 N3 (March 1982)
> http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf <http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf>
> 
>> On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com <mailto:paul.winalski@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> On 11/2/19, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com <mailto:imp@bsdimp.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> the notion of a self propagating thing
>>> was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places
>>> prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving
>>> vectors of BBS).
>> 
>> Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back
>> to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles.  Self-submitting OS/360 JCL
>> jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with
>> jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world.
>> 
>>> In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,
>>> but Robert just got there first.
>> 
>> Again, first on the Internet.  Back in 1980 I accidentally took down
>> DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,
>> at the time) with a worm.  ...
>> 
>> Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's compiler group.
>> The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident.
>> So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his
>> UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.
>> 
>> -Paul W.
> 


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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I am surprised no one mentioned <i class="">The Shockwave Rider </i>by John Brunner, published in 1975. Excerpt:<div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=""><div class="">Then the answer dawned on him, and he almost laughed. Fluckner had resorted to
one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in the continental net a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a denunciation group "borrowed" from a
major corporation, which would shunt itself from one nexus to another every time his
credit-code was punched into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a worm like that, and
sometimes weeks.</div></blockquote><div class=""><div><br class=""></div><div>I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don't remember much of it but this bit had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I have been meaning to re-read it along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would be too depressing in the present era!</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul McJones &lt;<a href="mailto:paul@mcjones.org" class="">paul@mcjones.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Another possible source of inspiration — including the name “worm” — were the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and 1982:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:</div><div class="">&nbsp;The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience&nbsp;with a Distributed Computation.</div><div class="">Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980</div><div class=""><a href="http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf" class="">http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:</div><div class="">&nbsp;The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience&nbsp;with a Distributed Computation.</div><div class="">CACM V25 N3 (March 1982)</div><div class=""><a href="http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf" class="">http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski &lt;<a href="mailto:paul.winalski@gmail.com" class="">paul.winalski@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On 11/2/19, Warner Losh &lt;</span><a href="mailto:imp@bsdimp.com" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">imp@bsdimp.com</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">&gt; wrote:</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">the notion of a self propagating thing<br class="">was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places<br class="">prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving<br class="">vectors of BBS).<br class=""></blockquote><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles. &nbsp;Self-submitting OS/360 JCL</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,<br class="">but Robert just got there first.<br class=""></blockquote><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Again, first on the Internet. &nbsp;Back in 1980 I accidentally took down</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">at the time) with a worm. &nbsp;...</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's compiler group.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">-Paul W.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm
       [not found] <mailman.3.1572832803.30037.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
@ 2019-11-04 18:10 ` Paul McJones
  2019-11-04 18:57   ` Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Paul McJones @ 2019-11-04 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Paul Winalski; +Cc: tuhs

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Another possible source of inspiration — including the name “worm” — were the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and 1982:

John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
 The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.
Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980
http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf

John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
 The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.
CACM V25 N3 (March 1982)
http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf

> On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 11/2/19, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com <mailto:imp@bsdimp.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> the notion of a self propagating thing
>> was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places
>> prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving
>> vectors of BBS).
> 
> Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back
> to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles.  Self-submitting OS/360 JCL
> jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with
> jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world.
> 
>> In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,
>> but Robert just got there first.
> 
> Again, first on the Internet.  Back in 1980 I accidentally took down
> DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,
> at the time) with a worm.  ...
> 
> Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's compiler group.
> The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident.
> So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his
> UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.
> 
> -Paul W.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Another possible source of inspiration — including the name “worm” — were the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and 1982:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:</div><div class="">&nbsp;The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience&nbsp;with a Distributed Computation.</div><div class="">Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980</div><div class=""><a href="http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf" class="">http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><div class="">John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:</div><div class="">&nbsp;The “Worm" Programs — Early Experience&nbsp;with a Distributed Computation.</div><div class="">CACM V25 N3 (March 1982)</div><div class=""><a href="http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf" class="">http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski &lt;<a href="mailto:paul.winalski@gmail.com" class="">paul.winalski@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On 11/2/19, Warner Losh &lt;</span><a href="mailto:imp@bsdimp.com" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">imp@bsdimp.com</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">&gt; wrote:</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">the notion of a self propagating thing<br class="">was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many places<br class="">prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower moving<br class="">vectors of BBS).<br class=""></blockquote><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles. &nbsp;Self-submitting OS/360 JCL</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it was,<br class="">but Robert just got there first.<br class=""></blockquote><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Again, first on the Internet. &nbsp;Back in 1980 I accidentally took down</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS,</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">at the time) with a worm. &nbsp;...</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's compiler group.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">-Paul W.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

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Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2019-11-02 14:12 [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm Doug McIlroy
2019-11-02 20:12 ` Warner Losh
2019-11-03 17:12   ` Paul Winalski
     [not found] <mailman.3.1572832803.30037.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2019-11-04 18:10 ` Paul McJones
2019-11-04 18:57   ` Bakul Shah
2019-11-04 19:24     ` Richard Salz
2019-11-05  3:48       ` Lawrence Stewart
2019-11-05 16:04         ` Ronald Natalie
2019-11-06 10:37           ` arnold
2019-11-06 13:35             ` Ronald Natalie
2019-11-04 19:25     ` SPC
2019-11-04 20:27     ` Dan Cross
2019-11-04 22:10       ` Michael Kjörling
2019-11-05  0:25     ` Anthony Martin
2019-11-12 20:56 Norman Wilson
2019-11-12 22:00 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-11-13  7:35 ` arnold
2019-11-12 22:24 Norman Wilson
2019-11-13 13:47 Doug McIlroy

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