From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 32346 invoked from network); 11 May 2020 19:12:59 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 11 May 2020 19:12:59 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 105249C5EF; Tue, 12 May 2020 05:12:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CD69C2ED; Tue, 12 May 2020 05:12:37 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="PrAn1cJL"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id F3C8F9C2ED; Tue, 12 May 2020 05:12:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f51.google.com (mail-vs1-f51.google.com [209.85.217.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB07B9B75D for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 05:12:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f51.google.com with SMTP id g2so6332530vsb.4 for ; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:12:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Bvqc/jBzFB2ApV1pigROXl7W94PpUY4VR0UyeykGDiE=; b=PrAn1cJLkm+YuF/Na6ZYvTcKQP3SowHJWazGWqq6dzyhIMDgAl3fkmWS65m6BrbC07 Z47743JwenJ3OYgg2VP8hLuKh/AvIyMYriw/k3H/NEA8l4S5CSJUk73m2v4L+EeURdZo FUjqaZwMm2eJsNW41GZlvQQDlxM2JxA09mPI0G1jC5/iVHrixbvmPJHm62OgkFN1T0yy As3sVjFz9lzuyIjhom40r5PARAt0V3o0kgJf10fp7rcSuWcoAiimD9A5Ty8niEcrHZMG dKgVZ3ZWJjg/lpFnNS4Z1PIvijR3869Dx1+Qx2Ad9CiXQZBihVGU0JTMExASSAgeYcH1 dsHQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Bvqc/jBzFB2ApV1pigROXl7W94PpUY4VR0UyeykGDiE=; b=XrDyh12wiZSJNLhtRBjw4tV5caBIcmSMDwMSOsSS2dtcmpVj2wZcvIIjjPDJe4Y9vT EsBWcwkOHaRgz91ruUtYMjajss+Ue9WHWFX3itZ/5B6iUGZOpe7Tyw2b53KP0Li+djQL mLCiT/uJIKiUi8vPFlJWUaWQgHr6TQEErwGPAaDonGEYW0xqAyljSHtBLIeq47doPd7a 59FTUikkMla+PDG5G4+D7jNHWcywACMbKWXkcXpXvUlMI5ClhibZUzmm3ET48YrRz+PI r8Sk6x0ydWwGgeylauEpccjT7CGlYQOM/+p1dl234gyLobarMmYgRbiEtJ4CQXKb+mVE CmRg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZvKHzfMh7QVq/uWB5TcyR3xDW59te0NRp5/GBHNFnheujZ5HnY U6RZDqrsCrXxs+KwtcefWibeSCmBIG/FLNGS60TeUw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKx7DMxZxQBOM28HfK5EmyKqiCl0L5GESpo9Pd1565Y0axdwTvmXL/3xevXoLCUdvFx/mGoKWeqt97wAY4fwJI= X-Received: by 2002:a67:2504:: with SMTP id l4mr12180038vsl.228.1589224353949; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:12:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab0:4717:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <6D6EFA0C-36C3-4225-A331-D1998A07C50A@gmail.com> <3cb1126796176debe28aa66672ba27ae@yaccman.com> <20200511005745.GL17035@mcvoy.com> From: Paul Winalski Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 15:12:32 -0400 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 K&R C X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 5/11/20, Clem Cole wrote: > > C++ is an example in my mind of not listening to Dennis' words: > > - =E2=80=9CC is quirky, flawed, and an enormous success.=E2=80=9D Ditto Fortran. > - =E2=80=9CWhen I read commentary about suggestions for where C should= go, I > often think back and give thanks that it wasn't developed under the > advice > of a worldwide crowd.=E2=80=9D The old saying of an elephant being a mouse designed by committee comes to = mind. Language standards committees tend to be like a pack of dogs contemplating a tree. Each dog isn't satisfied with the tree until he's peed on it. > - =E2=80=9CA language that doesn't have everything is actually easier = to program > in than some that do=E2=80=9D Big, comprehensive languages such as PL/I, Ada, and C++ tend to have more of their share of toxic language features--things that shouldn't be used if you want reliable, easily maintained and understood code. Ada failed for two reasons: [1] it had cooties because of its military origins, and [2] it collapsed under the weight of all of its features. -Paul W.