From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD21A27E1E for ; Sun, 19 May 2024 18:05:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6E64368B; Mon, 20 May 2024 02:05:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pl1-x62f.google.com (mail-pl1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62f]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FC944368A for ; Mon, 20 May 2024 02:05:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pl1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1ed96772f92so51245725ad.0 for ; Sun, 19 May 2024 09:05:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1716134706; x=1716739506; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=tccspvlBtZBCgG7B1iMMUsmrynCzP+MOhxfIMCZBZQI=; b=Ss4YNgtokztu9BPvEHDFrIDtW3iqe+TgjQGTMv4SPhOY0SCqcmEg/8EEjLNdYjyiQU DRLXpSLr3Z5Bj4gIx41hfb84tjmph8QVPiEAgqBqHYR1Vrq7X/gx/wG3tuf/2IGjaZ1Q 6jOyVr07UzUtJZKb9aefbfSKDbpSWjLRKtc3szuXTfeT8UL/5sIAGDlQWbqNsuoFNUKc 4lknNMKjTu6+4WgSR3pvkx9PzXiLSlR6qA9ti+9qGbPfNMLG1IKvoV7TkaSax0qcPz9O VX7jwAtlyd7VLUB2TzRvJbH+gDwkPOBItB7ZE4y7ncnPz0o+xpDWQ1MIut//rCp37/7S kE8g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1716134706; x=1716739506; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=tccspvlBtZBCgG7B1iMMUsmrynCzP+MOhxfIMCZBZQI=; b=uaA3wRWtVJg2Y/SQrXZcF0ZBHi5GU54HWfG9FSD3P4YjX1x0RLgPRWiTfcfmJdYlTB yBvmdTP5mREpHV/8WmVzMDGKxSdEei5wzJpjalcCl9wWacvrNDKYbt23ZHdIi/9N0ynu cySk+PCRd+dOqm9n2JRhkPrMgqv0k7JyGwlDRcUU7zldHXUyVoooM/ElUlPXaiS3Yc9b qNndRX9F5K6Usu0UrPIhDMk3Db/zSSSrC1ijBUbQdQ7e5m5tM4gn/jgIHbt2oe0h/e6k LNNJ235FvfB8g2GQw4tzYhOabHw7846XxWCc/hXcb+6AceEexVKSvaZ4zPacI/bao3kB AGmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzYca9UH1v9aEr0N8fcb/gGm2NzMVfuu6qEtE8X2vLmeW69GblT baw3I7F8in1Gg81L7cBzX/RgTzJgdMtliHIgugWriLvaKctLCAjvkPbsFy0AAj3/hhkSHodWgwu 2IWZgV2uuAiDX2Dkiix4+zxnKXukAbw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEFVEOLYzhS37Ppr9YJxd6kZtJKPeBa8pnQYwyTR/dLSWWSS1s6YsrysEhWeoMZREsArFqroX6j8cTb2tn25wE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d18e:b0:2b4:36d7:b6b5 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2b6ccd85bf8mr25600887a91.34.1716134705634; Sun, 19 May 2024 09:05:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20240514111032.2kotrrjjv772h5f4@illithid> <20240515164212.beswgy4h2nwvbdck@illithid> <8D556958-0C7F-43F3-8694-D7391E9D89DA@iitbombay.org> In-Reply-To: <8D556958-0C7F-43F3-8694-D7391E9D89DA@iitbombay.org> From: Paul Winalski Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 12:04:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008425420618d0bf0e" Message-ID-Hash: MB52FOGKEVILDQFYTA52DMOTUAHF7LXC X-Message-ID-Hash: MB52FOGKEVILDQFYTA52DMOTUAHF7LXC X-MailFrom: paul.winalski@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: If forking is bad, how about buffering? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000008425420618d0bf0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 9:04=E2=80=AFPM Bakul Shah via TUHS = wrote: > > Note that even if you remove every RAM buffer between the two > endpoints of a TCP connection, you still have a "buffer". True, and it's unavoidable. The full name of the virtual circuit communication protocol is TCP/IP (Transmission Control Protocol over Internet Protocol). The underlying IP is the protocol used to actually transfer the data from machine to machine. It provides datagram service, meaning that messages may be duplicated, lost, delivered out of order, or delivered with errors. The job of TCP is to provide virtual circuit service, meaning that messages are delivered once, in order, without errors, and reliably. To cope with the underlying datagam service, TCP has to put error checksums on each message, assign sequence numbers to each message, and has to send an acknowledgement to the sender when a message is received. It also has to be prepared to resend messages if there's no acknowledgement or if the ack says the message was received with errors. You can't do all that without buffering messages. -Paul W. --0000000000008425420618d0bf0e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 9:04=E2=80=AFPM B= akul Shah via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org&g= t; wrote:

Note that even if you remove every RAM buffer between the two
endpoints of a TCP connection, you still have a "buffer".

True, and it's unavoidable.=C2=A0 The full nam= e of the virtual circuit communication protocol is TCP/IP (Transmission Con= trol Protocol over Internet Protocol).=C2=A0 The underlying IP is the proto= col used to actually transfer the data from machine to machine.=C2=A0 It pr= ovides datagram service, meaning that messages may be duplicated, lost, del= ivered out of order, or delivered with errors.=C2=A0 The job of TCP is to p= rovide virtual circuit service, meaning that messages are delivered once, i= n order, without errors, and reliably.

To cope wit= h the underlying datagam service, TCP has to put error checksums on each me= ssage, assign sequence numbers to each message, and has to send an acknowle= dgement to the sender when a message is received.=C2=A0 It also has to be p= repared to resend messages if there's no acknowledgement or if the ack = says the message was received with errors.=C2=A0 You can't do all that = without buffering messages.

-Paul W.
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