From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,ONE_TIME autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 7772 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2021 16:13:47 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 27 Nov 2021 16:13:47 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 568879CEAF; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 02:13:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629A09CE5D; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 02:13:14 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="NiTlcJ1m"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6885D9CE5D; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 02:12:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-f49.google.com (mail-ua1-f49.google.com [209.85.222.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96E0D94942 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 02:12:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-f49.google.com with SMTP id y5so24699870ual.7 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 08:12:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=19ckv2ai6Xdsq1e67g7b2IIc6PRULnv1qOJulpGJEu8=; b=NiTlcJ1maaCRXk4mRLhVGzmZQk9ln9rXYrYLc9XQNfaFOWNLSmPaolSs0PZMy/npWk UAlFrnkN7dwmW5DJAjfrmAokc4n8raXI0jDNl81dwi/jpeUNqCwpM2mADruHJXsXJ0CS ZRlv1yv1LnclmO3fbAZKHXyImUTo9HDYxODZKje+Ns8ly18o29m0+VGm1+sAhwySOLal Dn1IpKvBcdkgwCuk430JamUYu1bcesguKpC3H/fVgm+R69uprLSWi650/2G/4cT2pJvb ffYx9hH+CAVAGYMS5WkUa4w8F4hAh6YlMN6041g569JxW8u8O3XlWOEKz2EINMKxTkXP u9Jg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=19ckv2ai6Xdsq1e67g7b2IIc6PRULnv1qOJulpGJEu8=; b=bLOM5Ar0ZUzcbXO7pcNg3FXLEswlmkCsQmxSWEcu8Qm9PWTv+Cy0xX6XeAhz8bxir0 hjYORagnwoM36DIM0eIw21CpDDthrg+EYrTu9ge0tlrcuhc8EQGo3FDl+vsDxE/drJQ+ KPKzpYU22cQz5Vq2pktBDEbsZu96jNi5JvQ6Bb2WpDFos+Gr59hiXLB2Wa8sszZFJxrS y1FwrgYuacrS2Phkzvzq5vTIhCKtAuM6bnk0yjvEsLEpDvdSzol3x93yL4ZSuFuxW0cN gn/STU2SFD49AG3xfn4qhozLsn3PwRjlMtQLmJH/aeIYQo+r+ZjlAIbNBJE32aDMQZ28 Lkbg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ydFavOjkzW/E18iOxoGD+HTTDHVTD9+DPYNlWrFh87O8TWMAz k/SbaXbgLYHM1ioEiyJY7lOmA1kkXZZzX0P7eGbOmE4R54Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzWU+vD0y8lkbC/qEBoJXeBq85KS1EEt59a+1AQ5Ip4edAl4Ooc/K5j2cBmkxI0hO9Ns1hb5pAOjDa5lK7s9c4= X-Received: by 2002:a67:6684:: with SMTP id a126mr22872344vsc.22.1638029548663; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 08:12:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab0:71d0:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 08:12:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Paul Winalski Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 11:12:28 -0500 Message-ID: To: George Michaelson Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] PL/I stuff - was: Book Recommendation X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 11/26/21, George Michaelson wrote: > >Burroughs by comparison had (I am > told, I didn't use them) shit hot code, the kernel was in a ci/cd > deployment framework with smarts. And DEC had the decus tapes and > everything in VMS was on microfiche. Originally on the S/360 IBM software was free (the DECUS tapes model) as well, and the source code was available on microfiche. There were some successful third party software products. For example, a lot of very big data centers shelled out the $$$ for SyncSort because it was so much better and faster than the (free) IBM sort/merge program. Then, as part of the settlement for one of the antitrust lawsuits, IBM was forced to unbundle software from hardware. IBM made lemonade out of this bunch of lemons by marketing its software licenses on a subscription basis vs. selling a license for a one-time charge (the model that DEC used, and that is most common in the PC market). Microsoft seems to be trending that way with Windows 10/11. -Paul W.