From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 6b3dcfd7 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:03:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 286DC94FBA; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 03:03:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E5C94FB8; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 03:03:14 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ggK9j3kV"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D879694FB8; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 03:03:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-f169.google.com (mail-lj1-f169.google.com [209.85.208.169]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C61994FB7 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 03:03:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-f169.google.com with SMTP id x85-v6so6085645ljb.2 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:03:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8Vi15Z39Rt7/CbwPSaautXDdsB0DEjIXhnmJvbGPGFE=; b=ggK9j3kVzo/fJ5KWUMb5xsM8Bw1jwwMSDof7FsQdMi+uJxaCVCqq8yQDn7n1THZpM3 wAut0x8EKL/IGzuSLnecXRFSiSLL0I4D1zchAwnS/sZnXLhOek8aIbezelKGGome7GNC RHzyesjTK7XXIUHS7y5jRRo/1fD3gPmgaPOpXsIUK8E3JTwItV3LiD5nXfJrC67k2yu3 j70ftWmycq78mqt/keU0Dj9Tkj6wOaJP4FJH8m/h2ND8bllU7g2vk/nGViVCiSpwG/eE sMa3lKnab/oHt+pQHF4NOpwIVRCAr7M62qLvyrPRvgI3RrutFCFPLMDjAR9Mer+cNThv GeRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8Vi15Z39Rt7/CbwPSaautXDdsB0DEjIXhnmJvbGPGFE=; b=aQmzZVLrE6ukz4HXPYeBH0Y6gVRYSmwNlEY36h1q+Vw5BXC5820Zra9bKtiYN3sBi3 uiOBz5d5El3KAfh7KDsmQPSyyClowtCP+BUfYouctwKDr2vHeNvKfQ5lUhgc5818sbVA 2WTbUhpDLRCcjpkGUMfjh8glG7tJcD/TWNBRQz5guDOGnOPRIY3ypYaCCGtbcTmAVCfk 89wZrfAhOLLbo2YsCEze3nJEhnUoqFjC4xMgiVhx1wmc0BrjPxe1KGQ76jrY+jWXVzC3 3iswTpvi2KTah8C6p7zRSIeJIAuW4yvqQly2iLqCmLMsVZV7NpjZ5e8y+hV/vPVisWqI yTIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcaPtiQU8uJYA+2SD7olgWeBNI39qeRzNSct3OaD+ZDacNFB2LL XLLm1WiHPsQw838Ej+EcblNsVY7HtIDqaGBMiwM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7UB2589CTJvB2yG3QxxYe5DGztnCX/cj2DrHAzPd9ARDSx6CnAcM0S1nJWXziPqgItwVPFLShY7TPmSQrPPL4= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8156:: with SMTP id t22-v6mr7211117ljg.32.1547658189762; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:03:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a2e:3a11:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:03:09 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Winalski Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 12:03:09 -0500 Message-ID: To: Kevin Bowling Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [TUHS] DEC and Dave Cutler X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Forgive me if this is a duplicate. My original message appears to have bou= nced. On 1/16/19, Kevin Bowling wrote: > I=E2=80=99ve heard and personally seen a lot of technical arrogance and > incompetence out of the Masshole area. Was DEC inflicted? In > =E2=80=9CShowstopper=E2=80=9D Cutler fled to the west coast to get away f= rom this kind of > thing. > Having worked at DEC from February 1980 until after the Compaq takeover, I would say that DEC may have exhibited technical arrogance from time to time, but certainly never technical incompetence. DEC's downfall was a total lack of skill at marketing. Ken Olsen believed firmly in a "build it and they will come" philosophy. Contrast this with AT&T's brilliant "Unix - consider it a standard" ad campaign. DEC also suffered from organizational paralysis. KO believed in decisions by consensus. This is fine if you can reach a consensus, but if you can't it leads to perpetually revisiting decisions and to obstructionist behavior. There was a saying in DEC engineering that any decision worth making was worth making 10 times. As opposed to the "lead, follow, or get out of the way" philosophy at Sun. Or Intel's concept of disagree and commit. DEC did move towards a "designated responsible individual" approach where a single person got to make the ultimate decision, but the old consensus approach never really died. Dave Cutler was the epitome of arrogance. On the technical side, he got away with it because his way (which he considered to be the only way) was usually at least good enough for Version 1, if not the best design. Cutler excelled in getting V1 of something out the door. He never stayed around for V2 of anything. He had a tendency to leave messes behind him. A Cutler product reminded me of the intro to "The Peabodys" segment of Rocky & Bullwinkle. A big elaborate procession, followed by someone cleaning up the mess with a broom. Cutler believed in a "my way or the highway" approach to software design. His move to the west coast was to place himself far enough away that those who wanted to revisit all his decisions would have a tough time doing so. On the personal side, he went out of his way to be nasty to people, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread. Although he was admired technically, nobody liked him. -Paul W.