From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 5a4cb0ac for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 04:34:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5F3EF9BCC1; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 14:34:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8926E9BCA9; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 14:33:53 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="X/sf6xsE"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5C7EE9BCA9; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 14:33:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-yw1-f52.google.com (mail-yw1-f52.google.com [209.85.161.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C0F6945FC for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 14:33:50 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-yw1-f52.google.com with SMTP id u139so2215042ywf.13 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 20:33:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Q7vevv451ZXGGFC7mNtFqozfmG1n1p6dFOJxaUNQ8OY=; b=X/sf6xsEJ7J3l4WkpbU+qvzuS0pN9mZB8mDZoloU5XhzT/Wx9D/3i/wrDvMe30nm+Q ywVwFHcuGMWf1BpRVOq7FuNac/SrOHyyZlEqGdXdmPOaVSQYCJMl+YsnrVbR+EcoJXgK iXMGsP0UOJBzLvlQjzKUKNm+E8LzcYPvZkhJ7dUQrRa+G86ERsVE6zN7ckqYw43plCcm SDc3dbX47jfhqD4pn/3xda1/Y9FIlZ7Tw08sDHlPTG7rnHnAGpx2eHwCUFPu9/lpVR8j yJITgVVIMika+hh9JWY5wMljBwyQfijUmA7Pz8mg6WLyhGxW7nfWOprllumLOx261+gE /lkQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Q7vevv451ZXGGFC7mNtFqozfmG1n1p6dFOJxaUNQ8OY=; b=GJaT3JXiSLp8xS0DfBMb4+e42ZBNqJjyLCiMROaGIB7vVrI5XXpNJfbQebAdeMeaU8 3Mz9W63gVAqSVRaLSRSlzbbR2tQ7p/Z1L7cg3Y43oCHBpVpqHHBpw+2xts9BCtHoAcQp iGua54eTNUr28wmv1bzqGSC2Dz6IxYyP2yh0MwjlupFLmaNZNdJPLdbOzf57ZnBwVbYe dk1M82mZCB7t5JFuj0whpHRJ63yrygw+acfli0yTJrbWOX0JCxuGoMg4KU3bPbcqvfkX i4Jwlvq9/u4JaiJ+vzZG6B+uuLoHjwJ/kfUcLHyrZhYr79qi2SaeIFfgp5xXKXrrWcnX D8Ww== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXN7ML6oGQPEf9mNTwx9xBlRuMyuaCGn4mrxdBiZupYZqIA6v1y q3o7i4yuRw4Rk99em5B0T3sXU/4+XhdJtgMI4U+mPw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzbsDyw/+5JhHZMft7lA91OyaiOaIrIVLJAi9Ma+zkscS7SZakMPjZRf3hRkq6IV3fDptsnDrpHg6MKJRjC/0s= X-Received: by 2002:a81:4f56:: with SMTP id d83mr6147241ywb.39.1578544429166; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 20:33:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: bch Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 20:33:38 -0800 Message-ID: To: "bakul@bitblocks.com" , tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f6733d059bad835f" Subject: Re: [TUHS] screen editors (Bakul Shaw) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000f6733d059bad835f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 17:40:10 -0800 > From: Bakul Shah > To: Larry McVoy > Cc: Warner Losh , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society > > Subject: Re: [TUHS] screen editors > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8 > > On Jan 8, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 05:08:59PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > >> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020, 4:22 PM Dave Horsfall wrote: > >> > >>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Chet Ramey wrote: > >>> > >>>>> That's a real big vi in RHL. > >>>> > >>>> It's vim. > >>> > >>> It's also VIM on the Mac. > >>> > >> > >> Nvi is also interesting and 1/10th the size of vim. It's also the > FreeBSD > >> default for vi. > > > > I was gonna stay out of this thread (it has the feel of old folks > somehow) > > but 2 comments: > > > > Keith did nvi (I can't remember why? licensing or something) and he di= d > > a pretty faithful bug for bug compatible job. I've always wondered why= . > > I like Keith but it seemed like a waste. There were other people takin= g > > vi forward, elvis, xvi (I hacked the crap out of that one, made it mmap > > the file and had a whole string library that treated \n like NULL) and > > I think vim was coming along. So doing a compat vi felt like a step > > backward for me. > > > > For all the vim haters, come on. Vim is awesome, it gave me the one > > thing that I wanted from emacs, multiple windows. I use that all the > > time. It's got piles of stuff that I don't use, probably should, but > > it is every bit as good of a vi as the original and then it added more. > > I'm super grateful that vim came along. > > The first thing I do on a new machine is to install nvi. Very grateful to > Keith Bostic for implementing it. I do use multiple windows =E2=80=94 onl= y > horizontal splits but that is good enough for me as all my terminal > windows are 80 chars wide. Not a vim hater but never saw the need. > Not sure if you=E2=80=99re saying horizontal splits are all you need, or al= l you=E2=80=99re aware of, but nvi =E2=80=9C:E somefile=E2=80=9D will split to a top/bottom = arrangement and =E2=80=9C:vsplit somefile=E2=80=9D will do a left/right arrangement, as wel= l as being able to =E2=80=9C:fg=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C:bg=E2=80=9D screens. I too am a (NetBSD= ) nvi appreciator. -bch --000000000000f6733d059bad835f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 17:40:10 -0800
From: Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com>
To: Larry McVoy <lm@mc= voy.com>
Cc: Warner Losh <imp= @bsdimp.com>, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] screen editors
Message-ID: <D192F5A5-2A67-413C-8F5C-FCF195151E4F@bitblocks= .com>
Content-Type: text/plain;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0charset=3Dutf-8

On Jan 8, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 05:08:59PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020, 4:22 PM Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Chet Ramey wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That's a real big vi in RHL.
>>>>
>>>> It's vim.
>>>
>>> It's also VIM on the Mac.
>>>
>>
>> Nvi is also interesting and 1/10th the size of vim. It's also = the FreeBSD
>> default for vi.
>
> I was gonna stay out of this thread (it has the feel of old folks some= how)
> but 2 comments:
>
> Keith did nvi (I can't remember why?=C2=A0 licensing or something)= and he did
> a pretty faithful bug for bug compatible job.=C2=A0 I've always wo= ndered why.
> I like Keith but it seemed like a waste.=C2=A0 There were other people= taking
> vi forward, elvis, xvi (I hacked the crap out of that one, made it mma= p
> the file and had a whole string library that treated \n like NULL) and=
> I think vim was coming along.=C2=A0 So doing a compat vi felt like a s= tep
> backward for me.
>
> For all the vim haters, come on.=C2=A0 Vim is awesome, it gave me the = one
> thing that I wanted from emacs, multiple windows.=C2=A0 I use that all= the
> time.=C2=A0 It's got piles of stuff that I don't use, probably= should, but
> it is every bit as good of a vi as the original and then it added more= .
> I'm super grateful that vim came along.

The first thing I do on a new machine is to install nvi. Very grateful to Keith Bostic for implementing it. I do use multiple windows =E2=80=94 only<= br> horizontal splits but that is good enough for me as all my terminal
windows are 80 chars wide. Not a vim hater but never saw the need.

Not sure if you=E2=80= =99re saying horizontal splits are all you need, or all you=E2=80=99re awar= e of, but nvi =E2=80=9C:E somefile=E2=80=9D will split to a top/bottom arra= ngement and =E2=80=9C:vsplit somefile=E2=80=9D will do a left/right arrange= ment, as well as being able to =E2=80=9C:fg=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C:bg=E2=80=9D= screens. I too am a (NetBSD) nvi appreciator.

<= /div>
-bch

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