From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 27265 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2022 02:01:26 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Jan 2022 02:01:26 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2E0DE9D031; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:01:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3A69CFC9; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:01:12 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="NvXWHZuP"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D49EB9C78F; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:01:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pl1-f176.google.com (mail-pl1-f176.google.com [209.85.214.176]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D7899C78F for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:01:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pl1-f176.google.com with SMTP id i6so1898884pla.0 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:01:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kIqw8M4HZaP4B+siF2zuZzljYQR/9OjPdolr2cHC/zE=; b=NvXWHZuPW4nrJnYXEzb/t4gAwzGb3LbKtZ7VHwCOWO/mXOTlPePeUZmD4uF5Z1xFKe QJxfBZa45/QGP0dC9Gl355zpmWuWmwef1ZNlfM9O/WKbdKv7HFvXxOWANGhgVfKfgQA7 OGoXRquZ5ajDP3+ppkVK2IuvJITiJVXskQUF/L/C8JyUB9MXM3E8QlJmKatuX+N5guw3 s63rz0Lqq/+dJxN5attT/EBLnsbaZfGOtiJkYyUCuiUHP/8QnC7XNoPH82uDu4QGyJoM agJk3vMSQj4lcBmRp/wTnyxjamzQWbJYkMC+sQ8UOLtnOlyZmjohBXxMiPOCRYIIleIh uvyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kIqw8M4HZaP4B+siF2zuZzljYQR/9OjPdolr2cHC/zE=; b=T2LsF8T6a2DtQau7nZaWmtfd0DyctmxNLBlDWw+8apm+8mdviuiJnO2LaDvp/Nrrtj T90hANxGff9yXnv9Mbv98c7kPk/LYBt1We/LFwtex5+/48MPaPhL5bW5zVdHvkkYSz6f DLL1ThM4OKyjFCvNDaYYdMV8zxRf66waAFpek4BbFP4rkVSV4YMDKxgj0xy0T67ONYqP sexap2dVmth9tLF0mrRkUeYREV1cFakEtCOq9U64xscRSyoMupUhbB/Y94qAcnsuIZwh xnRBB+h5o9IK7xidYlF8EGZoRoFU8RlE8g0+v9A2mzlGvRRcJAitfaf6wxVKH9AsF6Ei QKIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532aOyZhcdRtbZzGATRuKifi0pus7PJy3xwyA4L7dcYH5wDCRMOw rBLqchxzbCff6xqvl0sJl9mgdYtWzBKicQcDP2ZM/VLJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxtKuWo5ikzBhj3x0efBAhXCmyTHfglv0cPTZSomKpwB4plcGvZ40jPmiU5wO2MmS6GXRfGUwMbRhIUajQLcZM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7d84:b0:149:a05a:39d2 with SMTP id a4-20020a1709027d8400b00149a05a39d2mr7238456plm.82.1641952869950; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:01:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <250868b3-9e0c-5ff2-8506-e2da5c73862a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <250868b3-9e0c-5ff2-8506-e2da5c73862a@gmail.com> From: Blake McBride Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 20:00:58 -0600 Message-ID: To: Jon Forrest Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008d295b05d558f158" Subject: Re: [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000008d295b05d558f158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 6:45 PM Jon Forrest wrote: > I know of > a full C reimplementation that passes the test but the author doesn't > want to make it free software. > Although it is possible, I find this hard to believe. I can't imagine spending as much time as would be required to duplicate something that already exists. > > There are other rewrites out there that could be candidates but someone > will enough power will have to proclaim one as the official TeX > alternative. > Again, hard to believe. > > > 2. Drop DVI? Are you kidding me? Although PDF may be popular now, > > that may not be the case 20 years from now. A device-independent > > format is what is needed, and that's what DVI is. TeX is guaranteed > > to produce the exact same output 100 years from now. > > And .PDF isn't? > No. It isn't. It is an Adobe product. > > .DVI was great until .PDF matured. .DVI has almost no penetration > these days, whereas .PDF is everywhere. DVI was never meant to have any penetration. It was always intended to be an intermediary format. > I'm not saying that .PDF > will always be the proper alternative but a properly rewritten TeX > should make it much easier to replace .PDF will whatever comes > next. > Again, given the complexity of a proper TeX, and its declining popularity, I find it ver hard to believe that someone would spend the time to duplicate, with enhancements, it. Blake McBride --0000000000008d295b05d558f158 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 6:45 PM Jon Forre= st <nobozo@gmail.com> wrote:<= /div>
=C2=A0I know of
a full C reimplementation that passes the test but the author doesn't want to make it free software.

Although= it is possible, I find this hard to believe.=C2=A0 I can't imagine spe= nding as much time as would be required to duplicate something that already= exists.
=C2=A0

There are other rewrites out there that could be candidates but someone
will enough power will have to proclaim one as the official TeX
alternative.

Again, hard to believe.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0> 2.=C2=A0 Drop DVI?=C2=A0 Are you kidding me?=C2=A0 Although PDF = may be popular now,
=C2=A0> that may not be the case 20 years from now.=C2=A0 A device-indep= endent
=C2=A0> format is what is needed, and that's what DVI is.=C2=A0 TeX = is guaranteed
=C2=A0> to produce the exact same output 100 years from now.

And .PDF isn't?

No.=C2=A0 It isn= 9;t.=C2=A0 It is an Adobe product.
=C2=A0

.DVI was great until .PDF matured. .DVI has almost no penetration
these days, whereas .PDF is everywhere.

DV= I was never meant to have any penetration.=C2=A0 It was always intended to = be an intermediary format.

=C2=A0
I'm not saying that .PDF
will always be the proper alternative but a properly rewritten TeX
should make it much easier to replace .PDF will whatever comes
next.

Again, given the complexity of a = proper TeX, and its declining popularity, I find it ver hard to believe tha= t someone would spend the time to duplicate, with enhancements, it.=C2=A0

Blake McBride

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