From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4174 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2022 22:48:45 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 11 Jan 2022 22:48:45 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 233799CFFE; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 08:48:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C7A9CFC9; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 08:48:26 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="Vh7c92pt"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 395ED9CFC9; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 08:48:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pj1-f47.google.com (mail-pj1-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C59409C78F for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 08:48:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pj1-f47.google.com with SMTP id pf13so1610373pjb.0 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:48:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pGxqoydXqJxhgWiKNTh2MvtymWyo58JHxR41rwbQcwM=; b=Vh7c92pt/X86Toi5zKBOeGoBjsJ9qIOZoG+glkbDJE9eHKH7gR5HEPrcACkxnF7B5u Zh2UzbEeY1ixCElQXgkiV0j+Mmx04gQkjSzUuuJ7gdDlIkltRXApNXKC9JiDSF1QfTbH pFxS9fTEhYSid/NGZJRXygnxny1LXMGWqVbSJiNjUuh4lQ4lLFwXAS8PXYxMdsmBHajH ooq4bHpRrOItbpxAIXzviocMPtb+bJ5HUTm5ZnHUO6slmKsi+nuaAMB/Y93g8r/ZN3Ik JwVg0nb5tcg3iH2W90ZZFfcsSUJfGH/PjUBY8b3VQfTxD0gSrF7WQZkmTbyp+f6o6wGt aCBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pGxqoydXqJxhgWiKNTh2MvtymWyo58JHxR41rwbQcwM=; b=iiFucKaRnuWD53A/Hjs4NOeKLiWgIoiOg25mHsVUkK3RXi9hSbHekyI+SBn2QPj4nv q8ksjLuN3XMvmVFzYcolZV5ng1J4v2stEIf+IGSRn3uKaIwGCAorVIE9dzXAR8z9svai T1w1fg01JLwMzzSjLo9EW4zH1q0mi8uehCgwf22nYRz1xGaKuLgWJAvkDSWiit810O0Y wSDbCOXFcqadDVeFj+eldiTnfaV32Ng8SsIzRZ3pwjH06/HWxzoLClDveDmAIXaDRoXV pCYwNZ0Jk3Ls70CLzj9+pkuaaaZrv85jp/yET/DVrkmeJM9LdwTtnGO9PBMneIHwXQJ0 dtcg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5318Ymhp04M7aHLbHKnNYWLzVEFgVRknB1lfeW7b5J3BmtWW66GW Ixrxb6wTgnWOzV3zQsi5SgSgwgFozcIXSRdUewxkyxrJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzwr92LbNfBilfC1+DNR1kj3CIYUeVW/V9hma4VTOdZzMXo67k/isYcyKtuU/8NTeTGVMVxYu8xZSetsCRI0eg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d4c8:b0:149:43db:f3cf with SMTP id o8-20020a170902d4c800b0014943dbf3cfmr6773440plg.104.1641941303173; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:48:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211231234039.GU31637@mcvoy.com> <20220101005605.GL75481@eureka.lemis.com> <20220101031511.GB8135@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Blake McBride Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:48:12 -0600 Message-ID: To: Jon Forrest Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001e295005d55640df" Subject: Re: [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000001e295005d55640df Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 2:22 PM Jon Forrest wrote: > > TeX badly need an official rewrite in a modern programming language > (e.g. Go, Rust, even C). The rewrite should drop support for the > .dvi format, and use .pdf instead. It should also make use of > modern hardware capabilities and not have any built-in limits > to how much memory gets used. > > These issues are well recognized by the TeX community but with > Knuth not willing to be the BDFL, TeX is floundering. > > (I don't mean any of this as criticism of TeX. It's a truly > miraculous program that was created in a different time.) > > Jon > > Although I'm not connected with the TeX community, I don't agree with much of what you said. 1. TeX source to C is fine - stable and works. It would be impossible to rewrite TeX in any other language without introducing bugs and incompatibilities. Leaving TeX as-is means that it can be converted to other languages too if/when C goes out of style. TeX as-is is exactly what it is. Anything else wouldn't be TeX. 2. Drop DVI? Are you kidding me? Although PDF may be popular now, that may not be the case 20 years from now. A device-independent format is what is needed, and that's what DVI is. TeX is guaranteed to produce the exact same output 100 years from now. 3. I am curious about memory limitations within TeX. 4. Knuth is getting up in age. Someone will have to take over. I suppose #4 was my whole point about both TeX and troff. They're both great tools. Perhaps people used them in the past because there weren't many other solutions. You had to learn them. These days people prefer the simpler tools such as Word, OpenOffice, etc. Although they can't produce the same quality, they can produce sufficient quality with a smaller learning curve. Don't get me wrong, I despise Word. I just don't find my feelings echoed very much. Some things TeX and troff are going to need in order to continue: 1. Continue to be maintained 2. An effort to make knowledge of them wider will have to occur if they are to continue. 3. A case for their benefit will have to be made and dispersed. Blake McBride --0000000000001e295005d55640df Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


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On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 2:22 PM Jon F= orrest <nobozo@gma= il.com> wrote: