From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13169 invoked from network); 29 Dec 2021 17:39:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 29 Dec 2021 17:39:32 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id F36729CFF5; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 03:39:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84269CED2; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 03:39:14 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="YpAJUknh"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 233AD9CED2; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 03:39:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f173.google.com (mail-qk1-f173.google.com [209.85.222.173]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EBF09CEA9 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 03:39:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f173.google.com with SMTP id t66so9072257qkb.4 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 09:39:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+OSID4qgnlK0a9POBNKHgUEbVnkFWQ9InrjwVATMHTM=; b=YpAJUknhRcfHU1nF3Tr6iG1KevNxiNlBISziUaZGxdOcAOv8fxMpN6guMhnrWec8Xw LwLRLPzTXAz2uUaF09crtD/RIx/imt24e8zliA4e5XFPU5UghhcVHscVdg9YhDHzmvo0 sLzbRkWKdyCj20Gg1nUJz1EPQtsWCSEpFdT7g= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+OSID4qgnlK0a9POBNKHgUEbVnkFWQ9InrjwVATMHTM=; b=mhqUF0rVVjvi6Xwf9bWg6Lp7pUe6lETvTdWQLYl+zqCm+IRIrC8h2hViytGGoPANDO LNvN351cs/eZNsyiDwtkkjTMtIZSjkxH0e7XQ4TZ6fIk6lrqMJwKd5AZqFTzMNCfGN3d CgH6yZEZ/qzFqzBiiM3i+az+/Bhfxt+xu2siKkYrsSALBEMAvaMXJWMBjDlK4YCNPM3n R0/GwdTEAT2l/pfFFfoApsZNUQlDdGp3dc55vgUJgACJEA1So9swJnlIYIuLo4Kw0EdB ZkgkVIHXLwNUKyltItP2mW9YgjaY8m/zI5fOuqtEP9ipLAJj8H0VMN6K0+BjbXgBLS/q GqVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531YKSbUiNXdLvK0DxDGIuonioNt3/F9k3JnAHc1Q7UwiIlgNtIN zoj26rtttIjbNeUqttwiVW952Z/hXGEUY1Y3Rb8liNRUcgGzZg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwfq+OrB7bP+FjDEECvrbVW8tvD/Wvasv0rlV82WcwucUCOyOcYx3uKkk4Y7I3si7DIDNf+mxO1sZ2HzwnR7bU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:25d2:: with SMTP id y18mr19157928qko.442.1640799551588; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 09:39:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202112291714.1BTHEiXo008223@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: <202112291714.1BTHEiXo008223@freefriends.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 12:38:45 -0500 Message-ID: To: arnold@skeeve.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006ba22905d44c6aef" Subject: Re: [TUHS] moving directories in svr2 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: bakul@iitbombay.org, tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000006ba22905d44c6aef Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" At the risk of kicking a dead horse too much ... On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:14 PM wrote: > Plan 9 eventually did something like this. I don't remember the details. > Arnold - point taken but ... unfortunately, I think that the comparison is a little difficult because Plan9's concepts of namespaces is a tad different than UNIX's. But I'll let Rob or Ken comment as they lived and developed both systems. FWIW: An object store is something that retains information after the processes that operates on it complete -* i.e. *its a *static entity*. Links were (are) also a static concept. Late binding to names (like symlinks) are a dynamic (runtime idea). Bakul points out that by using the per process u area, the dynamic context can be retained. The observation is that .. (like symlinks) tend to be a runtime (dynamic) notion, although I'm not sure how you keep consistency in the static FS if you don't store the link in the inode. As someone that did, I suggest - try writing fsck if you are using dynamic content. How do you know? I'd still claim it is the same issue. Anyway, I suppose that like context sensitive symlinks (which I sorely miss), you could do this and keep a list of the N inodes for the N parents and then like CDSL's keep the one you used to get there in the u area so that .. picks the proper one on the way out and you can still have the static notion which something like fsck can check off line. --0000000000006ba22905d44c6aef Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At the risk of= kicking a dead horse too much ...

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:14 PM <arnold@skeeve.com> w= rote:
Plan 9 event= ually did something like this. I don't remember the details.=
Arnold - point taken but= ...=C2=A0unfortunately, I think = that the comparison is a little difficult because Plan9's concepts of n= amespaces is a tad different than UNIX's.=C2=A0 But I'll let Rob or= Ken comment as they lived and developed both systems.

FWIW: An obj= ect store is something that retains information after the processes that op= erates on it complete - i.e. its a static entity.=C2=A0 Links= were (are) also a static concept. =C2=A0 Late binding to names (like symli= nks) are a dynamic (runtime idea).=C2=A0 Bakul points out that by using the= per process u area, the dynamic context can be retained.=C2=A0 The observa= tion is that .. (like symlinks) tend to be a runtime (dynamic) notion, alth= ough I'm not sure how you keep consistency=C2=A0in the static FS if you= don't store the link in the inode.=C2=A0 As someone that did, I sugges= t - try writing fsck if you are using dynamic content. =C2=A0 How do you kn= ow?=C2=A0 I'd still claim it is the same issue.

Anyway, I supp= ose that like context sensitive=C2=A0symlinks (which I sorely miss), you co= uld do this and keep a list of the N inodes for the N parents and then like= CDSL's=C2=A0keep the one you used to get there in the u area so that .= . picks the proper one on the way out and you can still have the static not= ion which something like fsck can check off line.
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