From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, URIBL_SBL_A autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8593 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2021 12:59:50 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Jan 2021 12:59:50 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4DC5F9C0A4; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 22:59:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7DA9B720; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 22:59:14 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="DK56fKBZ"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B65309B720; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 22:59:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f53.google.com (mail-qv1-f53.google.com [209.85.219.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0F9C9B715 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 22:59:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f53.google.com with SMTP id h21so2685249qvb.8 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 04:59:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0J40XTwlbwmhOYA/3VmVdDD67yolqZyoqAL4tVxyNPM=; b=DK56fKBZHdOMrfHxqGOYrwPhRUpj48xacuUi5bnwhREScmhN5sy+4p4DRcq0nCeItH q2x08EqfI4XRaHVrCvsTeHY5yq6XuvS+Pu3yW2Vv1v4Xv50/EgdY/LZGIb26WU7Zsxmj 09m8NxR6Obn47+2egZ2s0RzWMQdDGJPN6Jn50= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0J40XTwlbwmhOYA/3VmVdDD67yolqZyoqAL4tVxyNPM=; b=dT8S6zIyzUtHT/aLp+7s7Alil3rSrsBe+b/gWUlJckr6kN29PfErdLc9RfsYufL1SK vMWvJrJ3yCMYcBFKsh4tlTELMlcnqnDFkCe9+wnTjahaLyfXRe26PpSafJCi55QhdL+C OL2lcNgoKAzIRJvlauIEYo4PceNxoMF28ZIYVWkW50N/4u41BjkiZoYKURW4rYNfKjyq yrSJPg0RVxSBD2R8cxvajaT+nsogixESwpewEQsNIwCV64tmWr8yIidMpP26zqUtRoZ2 vhNHp0Q5aU1425OOY8VGV6Qd2ROYYqWqBTB/vTZ5Y84DxUCVmCS+wkSTX8hNE8mKGXZ6 +W3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530nrTfkInn/WCh82R6TbbnO3hl6Pem1NnRivjsCw/z0rNUMhaUH nU8Xl7wZZ4UD0qKgzUlGLwgHJPC6HOk1Yc8+6pPJuKm0+YCf6Dg9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwwz1tY+gh6EkCXz5y3tklS6qwHnjkRwqr2+pQu+bHjqWw1kPt20RcBIsLZ9zIotbA30C/SsfOTIeeHoC1KpPs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:20a1:: with SMTP id 1mr4496831qvd.30.1611838748255; Thu, 28 Jan 2021 04:59:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202007261531.06QFVqZb027062@freefriends.org> <202007261535.06QFZvLg027250@freefriends.org> <202007261711.06QHB07i032409@freefriends.org> <17854.1611793153@hop.toad.com> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2021 07:58:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: John Gilmore Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000068cda05b9f57492" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Troff to ps X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000068cda05b9f57492 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Ditroff per cpu was cheap. I was part of all those negotiation. There was a buy in that way high and John points out. Actually there were two - one to get the sources for your first internal cpu and another for the redistribution rights. My memory of the first license for the original ditroff 1.0 typesetter was 5k (which included the new C compiler) although it did drop later when it went into the toolchest. But There was also redistribution fee also which iirc you worked off / creditted against like license fees. The entire v7 OS redistribution fee was on the 50-100k range (I've forgotten but am likely to have that in my att files somewhete) - which was after the 25k single cpu source license. The original binary per cpu redistribution license started at 1.5k. Which when a minicomputer was selling at 150k was not terrible. The problem was a PC at 5k. I was in the room at Riki's Hyatt in Palo Alti when that was all negotiated. This would lead to the Sys III license. It was at that MTG Gates famous looked at the rest of us and said "you guys don't get it. The only thing that matters is volume". He wanted to pay $50/copy max. Anyway troff was much cheaper than the whole OS license. The per cpu charge was very small as I said my memory is it was $5 over the base OS license. On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 8:25 PM Clem Cole wrote: > Actually It was very cheap. $5 a copy if I remember correctly Masscomp > and Stellar just ate the cost. The adobe transcript license was also > nominal. In both cases we realized it was cheaper than trying to keep two > separate streams and figure out which systems we shipped it too. > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 7:26 PM John Gilmore wrote: > >> Greg A. Woods wrote: >> > As I recall even some of the bigger vendors such as Sun and IBM didn't >> > offer ditroff in their base OS, but they did offer old troff. Those >> > were the days of insane AT&T licensing and all the games competitors >> > played around it. >> >> As I recall, AT&T wanted about the same amount of money for ditroff as >> for the entire UNIX release. So, of course no UNIX vendor was going to >> double the royalty they paid to AT&T for every customer, for a small >> improvement in a utility that most customers didn't even use (troff). >> >> John >> >> -- > Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual > -- Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual --000000000000068cda05b9f57492 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ditroff per cpu was cheap. I was part of all those negoti= ation. =C2=A0 =C2=A0There was a buy in that way high and John points out.= =C2=A0 Actually there were two - one to get the sources for your first inte= rnal cpu and another for the redistribution rights.
=
My memory of the first license for the original= ditroff 1.0 typesetter was 5k (which included the new C compiler) although= it did drop later when it went into the toolchest.=C2=A0 But There was als= o redistribution fee also which iirc you worked off / creditted against lik= e license fees.=C2=A0

Th= e entire v7 OS redistribution fee was on the 50-100k range (I've forgot= ten but am likely to have that in my att files somewhete) - which was after= the 25k single cpu source license. The original binary per cpu redistribut= ion license started at 1.5k.=C2=A0 Which when a minicomputer was selling at= 150k was not terrible.=C2=A0 The problem was a PC at 5k. =C2=A0=C2=A0

I was in the room at Riki= 9;s Hyatt in Palo Alti when that was all negotiated.=C2=A0 This would lead = to the Sys III license. It was at that MTG Gates famous looked at the rest = of us and said "you guys don't get it.=C2=A0 The only thing that m= atters is volume".=C2=A0 He wanted to pay $50/copy max.=C2=A0

Anyway troff was much cheaper th= an the whole OS license. =C2=A0 The per cpu charge was very small as I said= my memory is it was $5 over the base OS license.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021= at 8:25 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 7:26 PM John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com> wrote:
Greg A. Woods <woods@robohack.ca> wrote:
> As I recall even some of the bigger vendors such as Sun and IBM didn&#= 39;t
> offer ditroff in their base OS, but they did offer old troff.=C2=A0 Th= ose
> were the days of insane AT&T licensing and all the games competito= rs
> played around it.

As I recall, AT&T wanted about the same amount of money for ditroff as<= br> for the entire UNIX release.=C2=A0 So, of course no UNIX vendor was going t= o
double the royalty they paid to AT&T for every customer, for a small improvement in a utility that most customers didn't even use (troff).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 John

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Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
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Sent from a handheld expect more typos t= han usual
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