From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048D9213AA for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 22:06:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B01B4331C; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 06:06:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oo1-xc33.google.com (mail-oo1-xc33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c33]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0551A43318 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 06:06:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oo1-xc33.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-5ba090b0336so730435eaf.1 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 13:06:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1718309164; x=1718913964; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=c1ZzIvvFQMHKKHdNHudWLn+qUBvRY3Ze8ob7108bdjg=; b=K0EmTMxegorAp+4Rvj6/WYvOSo152xfqE+uZl/EuFXJvuV1ENa/jWvA5dVWJkNEFOZ y1soEgn0JuFvpgThxdvolzSRG13LBt6EXUBwE6QfAeF8MQaHr2NWqz+OWk9hVwHulW6C Xck5vl5QidSrZQ0z2wr9d3vQS2AGl4jVJmcOM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718309164; x=1718913964; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=c1ZzIvvFQMHKKHdNHudWLn+qUBvRY3Ze8ob7108bdjg=; b=uEtBlbIouX6vTsvNkkO19IpjYSIFW86xMKfk8wHSfTRZjMLj88cUqenvxqpjQ5bAew 8ZnqditS2vDNYYFqCLwu/jMm7fLsaaGCJqwnUW738vFSQYFHyahyTPfQepTopjNK40sW /+TXzLt52x2IGWJ+2kSy3MVyTKZeG6mv9OyzJwBjlKvAL7tczGGwsJBrvyTFBDEKhwWi aFKK1+lcG6Rq321pPZFNv2/+r/mfGurmfIKa6L6tL6eBGoS52wyNQYWCgh3/yIMCvUbO o9p+Q/a7i5Ysmfk2zgfPUuk+An6wFvGyYuXWAOlMNbJ7zTfBJv87BGokFyUh6mUHPHGP /nVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxxFuMO1Vks0+69U65v9poYnLH11FGP2XLgrSYRxsvdpIWYq7gi p8Gh6vwTfyvFApqGro0+CTBMWR1Hms0CxAx/gu/bb7T75pvHKRBczGtmODFo4Rt4jVd5u0rZd9a FcVS0JMMayCMYv2cEZWUgUmdAHma3jFh5WQdILvKLsoxJSNc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGhBWkDFdwAhcZLWn6qiOTt/aDKeUdpK/uMdA5vb+9CG9TJeH6WahUNdM/tGAGbwMmoFC2F/Bm3zVMl3Q9voBc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:623:b0:5bb:1ae0:17f0 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-5bdadc850d4mr822570eaf.6.1718309164006; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 13:06:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <73819d1a-395a-4b74-a20c-0123fbed56bd@technologists.com> <4f7a96cc-2d96-4547-952c-b414a773b62a@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4f7a96cc-2d96-4547-952c-b414a773b62a@app.fastmail.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 16:05:28 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Alan D. Salewski" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000055e894061acb0737" Message-ID-Hash: VF5PSP5ANQM6R47BEBTH4STH54SZSXHP X-Message-ID-Hash: VF5PSP5ANQM6R47BEBTH4STH54SZSXHP X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "TUHS (The Unix Heritage Society)" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] =?utf-8?q?Re=3A_Version_256_of_systemd_boasts_=2742=25_less_Unix_philosophy=27_=E2=80=A2_The_Register?= List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000055e894061acb0737 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Except ... My primary Linux instances are on my growing family of Raspberry PIs or equiv (I have a couple of BananaPIs and Libre boards). It's based enough on Raspian which like Henry's line WRT 4.2, is just like Debian only different. Frankly, dealing with those issues when you leave the fold is a huge PITA. The problem for me, I really don't have a choice as I can not run a *BSD on them easily to do what I want to do - which is typically to control HW (like my PiDP's or a some "homecontrol" stuff I have). As I have said, it all about economics (well and ego in this case). You have to make something better to make it valuable. Replacing how the system init worked always struck me as throwing out the baby with the bathwater. SysV init was not at all bad, moving from Research/BSD init to it was not a huge life. That said, I agree with Dan, adding a resource system is a good idea and probably was a "hole." Years ago, the CMU Mach team created their nanny system, but it ran in cooperation with init - it did not try to replace init (remember Mach was trying to be a superset of BSD -- they had learned the lessons with Accent of being completely different). When Apple picked up Mach, their engineers eventually combined them to create launchd - which is what I think opened up the world to "getting rid of init" and thus systemd being considered possible by some Linux folks. Of course, the Linux developers could not settle for using launched (NIH) .... so, sadly, https://xkcd.com/927/ applies here - that's the ego part. =E1=90=A7 =E1=90=A7 =E1=90=A7 --00000000000055e894061acb0737 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Except ...

My primary Linux instan= ces are on my growing family of Raspberry PIs or equiv (I have a couple of = BananaPIs and Libre boards).=C2=A0 It's based enough on Raspian which l= ike=C2=A0Henry's line WRT 4.2, is just like Debian only different.=C2= =A0 Frankly, dealing with those issues when you leave the fold is a huge=C2= =A0PITA.=C2=A0 The problem for=C2=A0me, I really don't have a choice as= I can not run a *BSD on them easily to do what I want to do - which is typ= ically to control HW (like my PiDP's or a some "homecontrol" = stuff I have).

As I have said, it all about economics = (well and ego in this case).=C2=A0 You have to make something=C2=A0better t= o make it valuable.=C2=A0 Replacing how the system init worked always=C2=A0= struck me as throwing out the baby with the bathwater. SysV init was not at= all bad, moving from Research/BSD init to it was not a huge life.=C2=A0 Th= at said, I agree with Dan, adding a resource system is a good idea and prob= ably was a "hole."=C2=A0 Years ago, the CMU=C2=A0 Mach team creat= ed their nanny system, but it ran in cooperation with init - it did not try= to replace init (remember Mach was trying to be a superset of BSD -- they = had learned the lessons with Accent of being completely different).=C2=A0 W= hen Apple picked up Mach, their=C2=A0engineers eventually combined them to = create launchd - which is what I think opened up the=C2=A0world to "ge= tting rid of init" and thus systemd being considered possible by some = Linux folks.

Of course, the Linux=C2=A0developers coul= d not settle for using launched (NIH) .... so, sadly,=C2=A0https://xkcd.com/927/ applies here = - that's the ego part.
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