From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 20152 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2022 15:51:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Feb 2022 15:51:25 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A860C9CE73; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 01:51:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE539CBCF; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 01:49:25 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="SDLyN7jE"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 47EEC9CBCF; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 01:49:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f49.google.com (mail-qv1-f49.google.com [209.85.219.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 966429CBCE for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 01:49:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f49.google.com with SMTP id 8so13177851qvf.2 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 07:49:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=e+zVLqUqe6EJZJ3hpsDHDd1wxBmWhKOaOeiEV2FHs+s=; b=SDLyN7jE19Tg1Gp5AmEmQqP1LWfRvu8UNO5UjOoM1HKezx6e7j8p0OqWS6rq1Q5r+Z 3oOYHMjpkGcpeiQAsHtOoIMf0MH7a9N6ENcmYy0nZq/c9SorKg+TrIIDKqXdRpS3sRLd SGgmuyjbD7/8H/usHfgOkZyXA9Jw9FBm6o36o= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e+zVLqUqe6EJZJ3hpsDHDd1wxBmWhKOaOeiEV2FHs+s=; b=2njWA9h4SmDsxUtNp2a5tl6wEu6jqXzHx+Ru9SuQG0EFEkckMI5Hj5zSn4sEHUbCiZ Prt/LHk+t7cxa0eDTZvGD7ZJjWMagFPknCZomJHhpgfx0y2JglTcyTy4s9ocpgUGdQgb 0bp3Tx1kfThZ1+vWqv/wZZlYHH+et8Q+7nETLnShYaxBwd6RIz6XS6B/sAoUXMLP+bh+ vjN7RomUTTBYij96I3pCCt2vnnmql5DXHyufZGS01v81A6+rBP6xIxybWfzkutog2UoW lJSF2B5q87OM0RrUlBWTMDaaGkY0jaAlt/6Ij8K0FbLuEfApo5rJW4sLSztzvWEiNP2q v0iw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53221MYTlmEpC7qfqtYuhHkIt44fjLtNL3jNucCexIZzxr2zmBQX Po/BteWV9LiRnKvlHnYeC1NiO2tDf774JjU6TY5rIBL3UgI6Rg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzxgXbTesUMU8GYmWGKcZ/tH3UPymHFTaWpzgOU/hoiVjQmSeEVnZTERC3M0AnyGNvYa8yY+eUoHHsatPnEPwo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1a8d:b0:2de:6b8:e8ca with SMTP id s13-20020a05622a1a8d00b002de06b8e8camr16859046qtc.373.1646063361442; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 07:49:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4e3c05d2-2496-b917-f1f4-1c6cba9ef58a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4e3c05d2-2496-b917-f1f4-1c6cba9ef58a@gmail.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:48:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: Will Senn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000efdbd905d915fd45" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Memory on Lion's v6 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000efdbd905d915fd45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 12:51 AM Will Senn wrote: > Does anybody know how much memory was configured on the PDP-11 that Lion's > used for the commentary system. Here's what the book says about the system: > > ; from lions, page 1 > ; The code selection presumes a "model" system consisting of: > ; PDP11/40 processor; > ; RK05 disk drives; > ; LP11 line printer; > ; PC11 paper tape reader/punch; > ; KL11 terminal interface. > > I usually add the mag tape, too > ; TM10 magnetic tape - not in lions, but super handy > > It seems like he must have had an MMU and 128k memory, but I don't know. > I'm hoping y'all remember, know, or can otherwise divine the correct value. > I've run with no MMU - crash on boot. I've also run with less memory, but > then cc won't build mkconf, when I have the TM10 enabled kernel loaded. As > a reminder, his book was published in 1977. > > Thanks, > > Will > Can't tell you definitively. You'd need to ask some one like Andrew. FWIW: the 11/40 has a MMU, but does not support split I/D like the 45. He has 256K bytes [128k words] as the Max memory. IIRC v6 will boot with 48K words [96K bytes] - maybe a little less. But the less physical memory, the slower the system (the more it swaps). DEC was just switching to semiconductor memory at the time and it was pretty expensive. The MS11-B was MOS based 18 bit x 4K word modules for the 11/45, which were dual ported Unibus and Fastbus. I have forgotten what the 11/40 used as we tended not to use DEC memory modules***. Lions and his team was likely to have been between 96K and 256K max, depending on budget. In my experience, we tended to build up to max memory on systems, but only as soon as we could afford it. In my experience, we often bought the machines in phases... just enough to boot it, with two or three RK05's to start. Then add more memory and more serial ports and more terminals. Then more (larger) disk and maybe a tape drive and printer, and then even more serial ports and some sort of modems and network connections. Clem *** At CMU during those days, we tended to use aftermarket memory or locally designed memory boards on the 11/40 and 11/34s as EE/CS had negociate and bought a few megabytes of memory chips from National Semi for C.mmp at a heavy discount - other groups could add to that order as needed. --000000000000efdbd905d915fd45 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 12:5= 1 AM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.c= om> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Does anybody know how much memory was configured on the PDP-11 that Lion's used for the commentary system. Here's what the book says about the system:
; from lions, page 1
; The code selection presumes a "model" system consisting o= f:
; PDP11/40 processor;
; RK05 disk drives;
; LP11 line printer;
; PC11 paper tape reader/punch;
; KL11 terminal interface.

I usually add the mag tape, too
; TM10 magnetic tape - not in lions, but super handy

It seems like he must have had an MMU and 128k memory, but I don'= t know. I'm hoping y'all remember, know, or can otherwise divin= e the correct value. I've run with no MMU - crash on boot. I've als= o run with less memory, but then cc won't build mkconf, when I have the TM10 enabled kernel loaded. As a reminder, his book was published in 1977.

Thanks,

Will

Can't te= ll you definitively.=C2=A0 You'd need to ask some one=C2=A0like Andrew.=

FWIW: the 11/40 has a MMU,=C2=A0but does not support spl= it I/D like the 45.=C2=A0 He has =C2=A0256K bytes [128k words] as the=C2=A0= Max memory.=C2=A0 IIRC v6 will boot=C2=A0with 48K words [96K bytes] - maybe= a little=C2=A0less.=C2=A0 But the less physical memory, the slower the sys= tem (the more it swaps). =C2=A0

DEC was just switching= to semiconductor memory at the time and it was pretty expensive.=C2=A0 The= MS11-B was MOS based 18 bit x 4K word modules for the=C2=A011/45, which we= re dual ported Unibus and Fastbus.=C2=A0 I have forgotten what the 11/40 us= ed as we tended not to use DEC memory modules***.

Lion= s and his team was likely to have been between 96K and 256K max, depending = on budget. =C2=A0 =C2=A0In my experience, we=C2=A0tended to build up to max= memory on systems, but only as soon as we could afford it.=C2=A0 In my=C2= =A0experience, we=C2=A0often bought the machines in phases... just enough t= o boot it,=C2=A0with two or three RK05's to start.=C2=A0 Then add more = memory and more serial ports and more terminals.=C2=A0 Then more (larger) d= isk and maybe a tape drive and printer, and then even more serial ports and= some sort of modems and network connections.


Clem



*** At CMU during= those days, we tended to use aftermarket memory or locally designed memory= boards on the 11/40 and 11/34s as EE/CS had negociate and bought a few meg= abytes of memory chips from National Semi for C.mmp at a heavy discount - o= ther groups could add to that order as needed.
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