From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 22263 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2020 18:45:05 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Nov 2020 18:45:05 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5B2069CC26; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 04:45:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55EE094490; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 04:44:23 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="MpZJit7w"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6A23694490; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 04:44:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f180.google.com (mail-qt1-f180.google.com [209.85.160.180]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90CE793DAD for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 04:44:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f180.google.com with SMTP id 7so5186672qtp.1 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 10:44:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=m16g6kZuADvlvUDl0cUHEdtG0HiLuJ5pqq3MvP9H73o=; b=MpZJit7w5fxSFxFaXTx7bvBkbN6YVw5n2Ktytac03kErDwSmBYbzvKktjpO9XGugXO kDFRCs1oBUZpKg+tFklwMksT4QmWOl+ytbq96UnW+Z98pQybWqE5gx3UxY1tGRkuwlLJ 9o6TT9K6Unvl8KbNYiZl50pUCbX0Bymk3Lv8Y= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=m16g6kZuADvlvUDl0cUHEdtG0HiLuJ5pqq3MvP9H73o=; b=dxIvbO8N4f88KzPLrdqNpnre4WUtb7qYNJm9o2RtlJOS19/9kXynpHDeFRgGdzCUhs AYICjG25hg0ElXup/xcBa5YgiaRcz+r19XMBOml9yHSnaDvFia5cuNQjZ2QwYkYEEPo0 TY/W5egZazK9bRH6RIDOcPBcPJ4RgUO6eOMEfsXAh6IUJNAQzRSW6u/LCwHKRQkcCPBU WSkuWS4iT/eJH3aLhJb8oDGO7REZcACWt3YagPW6syrWPyE6fzqZ/ORTpR1uI599CjiU u8oLqH/JdXyh5Tj/uj9au4+/TX2hNZp4dyylemuUbuJ27fxTXUvZsjrZKhRHL56z9WCb PA8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532lJQ4zgHL9u5GXijr4KtDw+IWp6UDlLVR23YfcC8+BibE20+Cj 1+12xAdIclBScPs5KIiIdltMvIADDzuIihiw7jLR5NQOqUTGAlef X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTy338VY64BWDpCPOAvJKUekQIgg0E631QVUsiX0eooQsOYjQsSWVhvmLhCUDCISHLH3fKT0tmaGIS/FrRg08= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7a87:: with SMTP id x7mr12043156qtr.253.1605811458408; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 10:44:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4f9b86c5-57e6-180f-6f07-6995763b07ff@mhorton.net> In-Reply-To: <4f9b86c5-57e6-180f-6f07-6995763b07ff@mhorton.net> From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 13:43:51 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mary Ann Horton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008e18ce05b47a1d36" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Where did the "~" come from X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000008e18ce05b47a1d36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I had always thought that also until Pressotto pointed out the Lesk had used it for UUCP which was running around Bell before Seventh Edition. But ... given Bill talked about it for shell in his comments, as Warner points out, that would have been before UUCP arrived at UCB -- so I don't think it was from Lesk unless someone like Ken had mentioned it, or he knew about it from another source (such as MTS from which Joy had learned/used as an undergrad before UNIX). As you said, Bill had an ADM3A at home (I had an H19 in those days), but as you knew too well, there were a ton of different terminals at UCB -- whichever was cheapest usually had a run of popularity :-) So the thought HOME keycap = home directory also is quite possible. Of course, Mike and Bill certainly could have come up with it independently but to me, it seems like the chance of both using the same char is really unlikely. IIRC a tilde keycap was on the ASR-37 keyboard but frankly, I don't remember, and can't find a pic of the keyboard detail, plus the LCM+L is closed right now for CV-19 reasons so it's hard to check. On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 12:23 PM Mary Ann Horton wrote: > I first saw ~ as part of csh. Bill had an adm3a at home (which is why HJKL > in vi) but there was a variety of terminals at Berkeley. I assumed ~ was > Bill's idea. > > Mary Ann > On 11/18/20 2:25 PM, Clem Cole wrote: > > A couple of my friends from UC Berkeley were musing on another email > thread. The question from one of them came up: *"I'm teaching the > undergrad OS course this semester ... Mention where ~ comes."* > > This comment begets a discussion among the 4 of us at where it showed up > in the UNIX heritage and it if was taken from somewhere else. > > Using the tilde character as a short cut for $HOME was purely a userspace > convention and not part of the nami() kernel routine when it came into > being. We know that it was supported by Mike Lesk in UUCP and by Bill Joy > in cshell. The former was first widely released as part of Seventh Edition > but was working on V6 before that inside of BTL. Joy's cshell came out as > part of 2BSD (which was V7 based), but he had released "ashell" before that > and included it in the original BSD (*a.k.a.* 1BSD) which was for V6 > [what I don't remember is if it supported the convention and I can not > easily un-ar(1) the cont.a files in the 1BSD tar image in Warren's > archives. > > In our exchange, someone observed suggested that Joy might have picked it > up because the HOME key was part of the tilde key on the ADM3A, which were > popular at UCB [*i.e.* the reason hjkl are the movement keys on vi is the > were embossed on the top of those keys on the ADM3A]. It also was noted > that the ASR-33 lacks a ~ key on its keyboard. But Lesk definitely needed > something to represent a remote user's home directory because each system > was different, so he was forced to use something. > > It was also noted that there was plenty of cross-pollination going on as > students and researchers moved from site to site, so it could have been BTL > to UCB, vice-versa, or some other path altogether. > > So two questions for this august body are: > > 1. Where did the ~ as $HOME convention come to UNIX? > 2. Did UNIX create the idiom, or was there an earlier system such as > CTSS, TENEX, ITS, MTS, TSS, or the like supported it? > > --0000000000008e18ce05b47a1d36 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I had always thought that also until Pressotto pointed = out the Lesk had used it for UUCP which was running around Bell before Seve= nth Edition.=C2=A0 But ... given Bill talked about it for=C2=A0shell in his= comments, as Warner points out, that=C2=A0would have been before UUCP arri= ved at UCB -- so I don't think it was from Lesk unless someone like Ken= had mentioned=C2=A0it, or he knew about it from another=C2=A0source (such = as MTS from which Joy had learned/used as an undergrad before UNIX).
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ">
As you said, Bill had an ADM3A at home (I had an H19 in thos= e days), but as you knew too well, there were a ton of different terminals = at UCB -- whichever was cheapest usually had a run of popularity :-)=C2=A0 = So the thought HOME keycap =3D home directory also is quite possible.=C2=A0= =C2=A0

Of course, Mike and Bill certainly could have = come up with it independently=C2=A0but to me, it seems like the chance of b= oth using the same char is really unlikely.=C2=A0 =C2=A0IIRC a tilde keycap= was on the ASR-37 keyboard but frankly, I don't remember, and can'= t find a pic of the keyboard detail, plus the LCM+L is closed right=C2=A0no= w for CV-19 reasons so it's hard to check.



On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 12:23 PM Mary Ann Horton <mah@mhorton.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

I first saw ~ as part of csh. Bill had an adm3a at home (which is why HJKL in vi) but there was a variety of terminals at Berkeley. I assumed ~ was Bill's idea.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Mary Ann

On 11/18/20 2:25 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
=20
A couple of my friends=C2=A0from UC Berkeley were musing on another email thread= .=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The question from one of them came up: "I'm teaching the undergrad OS course this semester=C2=A0 ...=C2=A0Mention where ~ comes."

This comm= ent begets a discussion among the 4 of us at where it showed up in the=C2=A0UNIX heritage and it if was taken from somewhere else.

Using the tilde character as a short cut for $HOME was purely a userspace convention and not part of the nami(<= /font>) kernel routine when it came into being.=C2=A0 We know that it was supported by Mike Lesk in UUCP and by Bill Joy in cshell.=C2=A0 The former was first widely released=C2=A0as part of Seventh Edition but was working on V6 before that inside of BTL.=C2=A0 Joy's cshell came out as par= t of 2BSD (which was V7 based), but he had released "ashell"= before that and included it in the original BSD (a.k.a. 1BSD) which was for V6 [what I don't remember is if it supported the=C2=A0convention and I can not easily=C2=A0un-ar(1) the=C2=A0cont.a=C2=A0files in the=C2=A01BSD tar image in Warren's archives.

In our exchange, someone observed suggested=C2=A0that Joy might have picked it up because the HOME key was part of the tilde key on the ADM3A, which were popular at UCB [i.e. the reason hjkl are the movement keys on vi is the were embossed on the top of those keys on the ADM3A].=C2=A0 It also was noted that the ASR-33 lacks a ~ key on its keyboard.=C2=A0 But Lesk definitely needed something to represent a remote user's home directory because each system was different, so he was forced to use something.

It was al= so noted that there was plenty of cross-pollination=C2=A0going on = as students and researchers moved from site=C2=A0to site, so it could have been BTL to UCB, vice-versa, or some other path altogether.

So two questions for this august body are:
  1. Wher= e did the ~ as $HOME convention come to UNIX?
  2. Did UNIX create the idiom, or was there an earlier system such as CTSS, TENEX, ITS, MTS, TSS, or the like supported it?
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