From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST, HTML_MESSAGE,LOTS_OF_MONEY,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 38dbc6b4 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 19:07:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E9877A18C8; Sun, 17 Jun 2018 05:07:50 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8334E9EDE8; Sun, 17 Jun 2018 05:07:35 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b=eeP1xMRC; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 28D2E9EDE8; Sun, 17 Jun 2018 05:07:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io0-f179.google.com (mail-io0-f179.google.com [209.85.223.179]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF1DB9B5D7 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2018 05:07:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io0-f179.google.com with SMTP id g7-v6so13508628ioh.11 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FfNKh0lP19pBqX+q1QcbE6sGJdhrht7dv0NMJj0DO9w=; b=eeP1xMRCxf+xINFrKTkVXPeok5lHON0dPojx+ej7S9rfbYiKAZrcrxsZMQqZofw2Wp CYkN14LzUvYOGfYDwee5456L3MUE5WVj+frePlnxG95MiLbCeBhvqkkrrqA159pJx7r4 pNsLeiVF2k4PVi0xzhnpuE9RuAwMiU/Z9Dl0I= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FfNKh0lP19pBqX+q1QcbE6sGJdhrht7dv0NMJj0DO9w=; b=QNB7NQkoUyu+Oe7qpyFL/6CHMkN0e+Y1h0vYbUfEVB9zXGo2C6i5Zm4jlbsqVI+E7/ D89Cuq4nX2SX7x19O6zfoDD8s4XMbtzPJZMlU0/Flvbs3LqOijOFMu4zWrcgg+cFidhd JlbwR6vDa422ONkYuKstiK2y8CVyxIBz8pQ251MK53TkoTeCAEEK4PM+RZ3qpzMxBSB7 Tl2MfIv5pVwYpyhSHpSwxNykghxl5ijMXbOVZ399oaXM37WcVkdLU8Ns485eaaFtw1Ps nGeg6Im+Uo2arpTMqIiYiPvJwI8BwfkwkF/em8Ref7nXIPLsMp2Y9b0YMjheLL6jIgug 0FPA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E1GyNCJOA3M5f6eO/ItEMiKUwzUV5oQSlpR8RsvFQLHATDcCSzu wcvLL2HCYhX5C1pWrGHzQ9KRL/fL6aFb2nA7sgrxNTnYcIA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJ9DPsvrSlRIB2bZe06ALMubMV2eWDvryS9RPWE3O11hg8oL+tEnaz20GExG3/lZdVYV9xYTZmw121j6OMdO8c= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:9e88:: with SMTP id h130-v6mr5560515ioe.283.1529176053111; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a4f:ca8a:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:07:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20180615152542.E1EC918C08C@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> From: Clem Cole Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:07:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dave Horsfall Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000071f428056ec70b76" Subject: Re: [TUHS] core X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000071f428056ec70b76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 2:36 AM, Dave Horsfall wrote: > =E2=80=8B...=E2=80=8B > > Hell, I'll bet that my iPhone has more power than our System-360/50, but > it has nowhere near the sheer I/O throughput of a mainframe :-) =E2=80=8BI sent Dave's comment to the chief designer of the Model 50 (my fr= iend Russ Robelen). His reply is cut/pasted below. For context he refers to a ver rare book called: =E2=80=98IBM=E2=80=99s 360 and Early 370 Systems=E2= =80=99 by Pugh, Johnson & J.H.Palmer . A book and other other IBMers like Russ is considered the biblical text on 360: As to Dave=E2=80=99s comment: I'll bet that my iPhone has more power than o= ur System-360/50, but it has nowhere near the sheer I/O throughput of a mainframe. The ratio of bits of I/O to CPU MIPS was very high back in those days, Particularly for the Model 50 which was considered a =E2=80=98Commercial ma= chine=E2=80=99 vs a =E2=80=98Scientific machine=E2=80=99. The machine was doing payroll a= nd inventory management, high on I/O low on compute. Much different today even for an iPhone. The latest iPhone runs on a ARMv8 derivative of Apple's "Swift" *d= ual core *architecture called "Cyclone" and it runs at 1.3 GHz. The Mod 50 ran at 2 MHz. The ARMv8 is a 64 bit machine. The Mod 50 was a 32 bit machine. The mod 50 had no cache (memory ran at .5 Mhz). Depending on what instruction mix you want to use I would put the iPhone at conservatively 1,500 times the Mod 50. I might add, a typical Mod 50 system with I/O sold for $1M. On the question of memory cost - this is from the bible on 360 mentioned earlier. *For example, the Model 50 main memory with a read-write cycle of 2 microseconds cost .8 cents per bit*. *Page 194 Chapter 4 =E2=80=98IBM=E2=80=99s 360 and Early 370 Systems=E2=80= =9D* =E2=80=8B =E1=90=A7 --00000000000071f428056ec70b76 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 2:36 AM, Dave = Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:
=E2=80=8B...=E2= =80=8B

Hell, I'll bet that my iPhone has more power than our System-360/50, bu= t it has nowhere near the sheer I/O throughput of a mainframe :-)

=E2=80=8BI sent Dave's comment to the chief= designer of the Model 50 (my friend Russ Robelen).=C2=A0 =C2=A0His reply i= s cut/pasted below.=C2=A0 For context he refers to a ver rare book called:= =C2=A0=E2=80=98IBM=E2=80=99s 360 and Early 370 Systems=E2=80= =99 by Pugh, Johnson & J.H.Palmer .=C2=A0 A book and other other IBMers= like Russ is considered the biblical text on 360:

=C2=A0

As to Dave=E2=80=99s comment:= =C2=A0I'll bet that my iPhone has mor= e power than our System-360/50, but it has nowhere near the sheer I/O throu= ghput of a mainframe.


The ratio of bits of I/O to CPU MIPS=C2=A0 was very high back in th= ose days, Particularly for the Model 50 which was considered a =E2=80=98Com= mercial machine=E2=80=99 vs a =E2=80=98Scientific machine=E2=80=99.=C2=A0 T= he machine was doing payroll and inventory management, high on I/O low on c= ompute.=C2=A0 Much different today even for an iPhone.=C2=A0 The latest iPh= one runs on a ARMv8 derivative of Apple's "Swift"=C2=A0dua= l core=C2=A0architecture called "Cyclone" and it= runs at 1.3 GHz.=C2=A0 The Mod 50 ran at 2 MHz.=C2=A0 The ARMv8 is a 64 bi= t machine.=C2=A0 The Mod 50 was a 32 bit machine. The mod 50 had no cache (= memory ran at .5 Mhz). =C2=A0=C2=A0Depending on what instruction mix you wa= nt to use I would put the iPhone at =C2=A0conservatively 1,500 times the Mo= d 50.=C2=A0 I might add, a typical Mod 50 system with I/O sold for $1M.<= /u>

On the question of me= mory cost - this is from the bible on 360 mentioned earlier.

For example, the Model 50 main memo= ry with a read-write cycle of 2 microseconds cost .8 cents per bit. =C2= =A0

= Page 194 Chapter 4 =E2=80=98IBM=E2=80=99s 360 and Early 370 Systems=E2=80= =9D

= =C2=A0

=
=E2=80=8B
3D""=E1=90= =A7
--00000000000071f428056ec70b76--