From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10261 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2022 15:51:44 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 5 Jan 2022 15:51:44 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2D0789C703; Thu, 6 Jan 2022 01:51:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCDF9C6E5; Thu, 6 Jan 2022 01:51:26 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="g6a9XIXC"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6E0709C6E5; Thu, 6 Jan 2022 01:51:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f51.google.com (mail-qv1-f51.google.com [209.85.219.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEECB94A6B for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2022 01:51:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f51.google.com with SMTP id kj16so37954208qvb.2 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2022 07:51:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Gve8UVL+sBIk9UmXt/zKVzvE72ksJXZMZtFZCqjdRss=; b=g6a9XIXCKZNHwFaoDJ3yvDReYQ+z2Fr4xyoxd1QznlbBjGDrBUZ8qAxzqAACU39vUw JsTGHOlYGYzRHBZp/AGfLiXPS0YZqrYZy2cq+G2rIehILgsXQ2OmtNSoqTWBKXfbDP87 xgbQIbPbtUycVOTnKTXUso9PW77y/pEtraOG0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Gve8UVL+sBIk9UmXt/zKVzvE72ksJXZMZtFZCqjdRss=; b=uKlC1lbHkzRYrA8vYlhaWI4IQCv6YVkPNEJpR986HAKWs+GkaReOZ22NDlcuMJO7Oz yRiIoGweGddfaGtcxf6QCCr9T+mIopSluukqrWfYcfY6uy0Ed/HYU+WPDKYW2Qdp9l6G 359lHCrJfh7nj3U3OkqMJ3WS0FXZXjF4RM3fNE3NnjQmskzP2SoO+B4Kor+0NI+RbvUn E6oY97DVmmzPfNCSHSgMLyr1pwZ49KhJSsxg7vHkesXL9fx1TqOBrmFNZeJ+V6gy+0Hr FefkJF0rmPzcIX3ZlW6O+kJG9kvR5qq0Uf4mHb0IQ2NLlqE8P2ho1g/FnlJmOXouRuLF bTzg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53237nuaK99BcPV+I84/XM8BIIu3QVWLqJCUV8aE8FZB9Ho+yuUa oUt+EAsVANa7OUrjbYuRwhOaX6kXOmtQ12ji3M5NbQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwojW461gEn5OT7dOtEuBSlIjizrZzAzzcpRj3D0tSUlFom/ussSVwhhOPHSQMemC53yDSOrds+dWKt8e4/yrA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:27cf:: with SMTP id ge15mr50883637qvb.129.1641397883874; Wed, 05 Jan 2022 07:51:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <102db625-b2a0-935b-7424-a183ae64fb65@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 10:50:58 -0500 Message-ID: To: Will Senn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cdc3d105d4d7b9b9" Subject: Re: [TUHS] vi on v7 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000cdc3d105d4d7b9b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" FWIW: Since I know you are on a Mac - there are couple of retro style terminal emulators, that may be able to be configured to be VT52 or one of the others from that time. One is call Cathode which I think cost a few $s and there is a free one called Cool-Retro-Term ( https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term) On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:44 AM Clem Cole wrote: > Just add the vt100 entry from 4.1 you might be fine. FYI:To there credit, > when the VT-100 was being developed the spec was a moving target and Tom > Kent and his brothers and sisters in the terminal group did an amazing job > -- but .... VT-100 are not completely ANSI (DEC released before the spec > was ratified smd it lacks some features that are really needed). It uses > scrolling regions to do some of the painting/update -- Mary Ann > undoubtedly has nightmares. > > The termcap code in 2BSD is very early and may not be smart enough to do > some of the tricks that VT-100 demanded, so it might be wise to swipe the > 4.1/4.2 version and see if you can substitute. Also remember Sys V used > *terminfo* [again Maryann can explain having fought that war]. Termcap > was included in later versions by demand. > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:28 AM Will Senn wrote: > >> On 1/4/22 7:35 PM, Warner Losh wrote: >> >> >> 1. It's not going "full" screen, even with TERM=vt100 or TERM=ansi set >> (not that I was surprised, but it'd be nice)... >> >> What does /etc/termcap look like? >> >> >> All right, I'm getting warmer. I tried changing ttys to various speeds, >> and stty 9600, per Clem, Then, I looked at termcap, and saw that there >> weren't any ansi or vt100 entries (duh), so then I tryed vt50 and vt52 >> modes: >> >> vt50: >> >> HJ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ~ >> ~ >> ~ >> AAAA >> >> >> >> >> :q >> >> vt52: >> >> Y7 HJY- ~ >> ~ >> ~ >> ~ >> ~ >> ~ >> ~ >> ~ >> ~ >> ~Y, Y7 :q >> >> >> Here are the termcap entries. I compared with termcap in svr2, which has >> vt50,vt52, and vt100: >> >> v7: >> >> vh|vt50h|dec vt50h:\ >> :bs:cd=\EJ:ce=\EK:cl=\EH\EJ:cm=\EY%+ %+ :co#80:li#12:nd=\EC:\ >> :pt:sr=\EI:up=\EA: >> v2|vt52|dec vt52:\ >> :bs:cd=\EJ:ce=\EK:cl=\EH\EJ:cm=\EY%+ %+ :co#80:li#24:nd=\EC:\ >> :pt:sr=\EI:up=\EA: >> >> svr2: >> >> d0|vt100|vt100-am|vt100|dec vt100:\ >> :cr=^M:do=^J:nl=^J:bl=^G:co#80:li#24:cl=50\E[;H\E[2J:\ >> :le=^H:bs:am:cm=5\E[%i%d;%dH:nd=2\E[C:up=2\E[A:\ >> :ce=3\E[K:cd=50\E[J:so=2\E[7m:se=2\E[m:us=2\E[4m:ue=2\E[m:\ >> :md=2\E[1m:mr=2\E[7m:mb=2\E[5m:me=2\E[m:is=\E[1;24r\E[24;1H:\ >> :rs=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h:ks=\E[?1h\E=:ke=\E[?1l\E>:\ >> :rf=/usr/lib/tabset/vt100:ku=\EOA:kd=\EOB:kr=\EOC:kl=\EOD:kb=^H:\ >> >> :ho=\E[H:k1=\EOP:k2=\EOQ:k3=\EOR:k4=\EOS:ta=^I:pt:sr=5\EM:vt#3:xn:\ >> :sc=\E7:rc=\E8:cs=\E[%i%d;%dr: >> d1|vt100|vt100-nam|vt100 w/no am:\ >> :am@:xn@:tc=vt100-am: >> d2|gt42|dec gt42:\ >> :cr=^M:do=^J:bl=^G:\ >> :le=^H:bs:co#72:ns:li#40:os: >> d3|vt132|vt132:\ >> >> :al=99\E[L:dl=99\E[M:ip=7:dc=7\E[P:ei=\E[4l:im=\E[4h:xn:dN#30:tc=vt100: >> d4|gt40|dec gt40:\ >> :cr=^M:do=^J:bl=^G:\ >> :le=^H:bs:co#72:ns:li#30:os: >> d5|vt50|dec vt50:\ >> :cr=^M:do=^J:nl=^J:bl=^G:\ >> >> :le=^H:bs:cd=\EJ:ce=\EK:cl=\EH\EJ:co#80:li#12:nd=\EC:ta=^I:pt:up=\EA: >> >> Here's the list of available terminals culled from /etc/termcap from v7 >> and the buggy/untested list included in termcap: >> >> dumb, lsi adm3/adm3a/adm31/adm3a, concept100/concept100rv, hp2645, >> dm1520/dm2500/dm3025/3025a, dec gt40/gt42/vt50/vt50h/vt52, decwriter >> I/decwriter II, diablo 300s, hazeltine 1500/1510/2000, Infoton 100/400/KAS, >> fox 1100, owl 1200, tektronix 4014, teleray 1061, terminet 1200/300, >> tty33/37/43, ti silent 700/745, xitex sct-100, beehiveIIIm, tvi912/tvi920, >> ttyWilliams, infoton|400|infoton 400 >> >> buggy -dm2500 >> Untested - gt40, gt42, vt50, vt50h, dw1, dtc300s, gsi, infoton, fox, >> tk4014, t1061, 1200, 300, tty33, tty37, tty43 >> >> I don't suppose any of these look like reasonable approximations of >> something I have available in Terminal/xterm? >> >> Will >> > --000000000000cdc3d105d4d7b9b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FWIW: Since I know you are on a Mac - there are couple = of retro style terminal emulators, that may be able to be configured to be = VT52 or one of the others from that time. =C2=A0 One is call Cathode which = I think cost a few $s and there is a free one called Cool-Retro-Term (https://github.com/Sw= ordfish90/cool-retro-term)

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:44 AM Clem Co= le <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
Just add the vt100 entry from 4.1 y= ou might be fine.=C2=A0 FYI:To there credit, when the VT-100 was being deve= loped the spec was a moving target and Tom Kent and his brothers and sister= s in the terminal group did an amazing job -- but ....=C2=A0=C2=A0VT-100 are not completely ANSI (DEC released before the spec was ratifi= ed=C2=A0smd it lacks some features that are really needed). =C2=A0 It uses = scrolling regions to do some of the painting/update -- Mary Ann undoubtedly= =C2=A0has nightmares. =C2=A0

The termcap code in 2BSD = is very early and may not be smart enough to do some of the tricks that=C2= =A0VT-100 demanded, so it might be wise to swipe the 4.1/4.2 version and se= e if you can substitute. =C2=A0 Also remember Sys V used terminfo [a= gain Maryann can explain having fought that war]. =C2=A0 Termcap was includ= ed in later versions by demand. =C2=A0=C2=A0

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10= :28 AM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
On 1/4/22 7:35 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
=20

1. It's not go= ing "full" screen, even with TERM=3Dvt100 or TERM=3Dansi = set (not that I was surprised, but it'd be nice)...

What does /etc/termcap look like?
=C2=A0

All right, I'm getting warmer. I tried changing ttys to various speeds, and stty 9600, per Clem, Then, I looked at termcap, and saw that there weren't any ansi or vt100 entries (duh), so then I tryed vt50 and vt52 modes:

vt50:
HJ






=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0 AAAA




=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :q
vt52:
Y7 HJY- ~
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ~
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ~Y, Y7 :q

Here are the termcap entries. I compared with termcap in svr2, which has vt50,vt52, and vt100:

v7:
vh|vt50h|dec vt50h:\
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :bs:cd=3D\EJ:ce=3D\EK:cl=3D\EH\EJ:cm=3D\EY%+ %+ :co#80:li#12:nd= =3D\EC:\
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :pt:sr=3D\EI:up=3D\EA:
= v2|vt52|dec vt52:\
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :bs:cd=3D\EJ:ce=3D\EK:cl=3D\EH\EJ:cm=3D\EY%+ %+ :co#80:li#24:nd= =3D\EC:\
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :pt:sr=3D\EI:up=3D\EA:
svr2:
d0|vt100|vt100-am|vt100|dec vt100:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :cr=3D^M:do=3D^J:nl=3D^J= :bl=3D^G:co#80:li#24:cl=3D50\E[;H\E[2J:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :le=3D^H:bs:am:cm=3D5\E[= %i%d;%dH:nd=3D2\E[C:up=3D2\E[A:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :ce=3D3\E[K:cd=3D50\E[J:so=3D2\E[7m:se=3D2\E[m:us=3D2\E[4m:ue=3D2\E= [m:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :md=3D2\E[1m:mr=3D2\E[7m:mb=3D2\E[5m:me=3D2\E[m:is=3D\E[1;24r\E[24;= 1H:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :rs=3D\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h:ks=3D\E[?1h\E=3D:ke=3D\E= [?1l\E>:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :rf=3D/usr/lib/tabset/vt100:ku=3D\EOA:kd=3D\EOB:kr=3D\EOC:kl=3D\EOD= :kb=3D^H:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :ho=3D\E[H:k1=3D\EOP:k2=3D\EOQ:k3=3D\EOR:k4=3D\EOS:ta=3D^I:pt:sr=3D= 5\EM:vt#3:xn:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :sc=3D\E7:rc=3D\E8:cs=3D= \E[%i%d;%dr:
d1|vt100|vt100-nam|vt100 w/no am:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :am@:xn@:tc=3Dvt100-am:<= br> d2|gt42|dec gt42:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :cr=3D^M:do=3D^J:bl=3D^G= :\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :le=3D^H:bs:co#72:ns:li#= 40:os:
d3|vt132|vt132:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :al=3D99\E[L:dl=3D99\E[M:ip=3D7:dc=3D7\E[P:ei=3D\E[4l:im=3D\E[4h:xn= :dN#30:tc=3Dvt100:
d4|gt40|dec gt40:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :cr=3D^M:do=3D^J:bl=3D^G= :\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :le=3D^H:bs:co#72:ns:li#= 30:os:
d5|vt50|dec vt50:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :cr=3D^M:do=3D^J:nl=3D^J= :bl=3D^G:\
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 :le=3D^H:bs:cd=3D\EJ:ce=3D\EK:cl=3D\EH\EJ:co#80:li#12:nd=3D\EC:ta= =3D^I:pt:up=3D\EA:
Here's the list of available terminals culled from /etc/termcap fro= m v7 and the buggy/untested list included in termcap:
dumb, lsi adm3/adm3a/adm31/adm3a, concept100/concept100rv, hp2645, dm1520/dm2500/dm3025/3025a, dec gt40/gt42/vt50/vt50h/vt52, decwriter I/decwriter II, diablo 300s, hazeltine 1500/1510/2000, Infoton 100/400/KAS, fox 1100, owl 1200, tektronix 4014, teleray 1061, terminet 1200/300, tty33/37/43, ti silent 700/745, xitex sct-100, beehiveIIIm, tvi912/tvi920, ttyWilliams, infoton|400|infoton 400

buggy -dm2500 =C2=A0
Untested - gt40, gt42, vt50, vt50h, dw1, dtc300s, gsi, infoton, fox, tk4014, t1061, 1200, 300, tty33, tty37, tty43

I don't suppose any of these look like reasonable approximations of something I have available in Terminal/xterm?

Will
--000000000000cdc3d105d4d7b9b9--