From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,URIBL_SBL,URIBL_SBL_A autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 93e63840 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 21:12:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 72FCE9C10F; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:12:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20FFF93D9E; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:11:46 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="Od+3H99B"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8CBBA93D9E; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:11:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f181.google.com (mail-qt1-f181.google.com [209.85.160.181]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAA6093D24 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 07:11:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f181.google.com with SMTP id o49so31191357qta.7 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 13:11:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Nwrt8JBmB/HDERnpjlcSu5tvpVUGBNEbgQMYtUKylyU=; b=Od+3H99BkrppHF8l9cc6bIVKheFdk8nHKeAEM5kxrVfRCi1t0dWd36h0yj2a43+Pyn Takk1CJUhlufxM5zPuGGF2v6esJF3YPvAR2ZRJTYqkVqw16MkK9RTKcBiDofLdHyQVsY lr4kYiNOsPWnvoHrwL4/St685Bu5BOyGh96kI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Nwrt8JBmB/HDERnpjlcSu5tvpVUGBNEbgQMYtUKylyU=; b=es8y9ccaeQxdgwjM5+/IKoHqPxVrJ1U92XkTX5t5fNqBlc/Xl1qTgxqQ5PccjwSgMW yJB7uw3w3j1ybQJfkExWrwOqxaDr4/j9LeekGCkP9VNL2IR+/z21XJjdfpysymaNZ+DL mN3x3PqCaYcSAiVBcQQziUFOk6cM097/utA9cVXiRA7bk67+0xKiGr1zJEywyYhVdxPX nFUrUHzwHzbYcALEfjVctXS0tp8c9RDRKoK77sdTVp+Cv3TpOvqrCanrNT+AKRgyLgvY GC8JaY84Wgkr7qm6y9S7ZTnbgwa2y1Yy9TACXn5sPz9Sl8xyM0KUVJtwCvIcB/Py/LGY Av2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXNFWZJcdtQkwTfsA2zjMETZ05spyzvocLg7pknT1fMM3vgPaBU W9PsthtgRHn+P9rBdgc7ysi+SM5J7LmZ8DEQe9rO2Q6epOg4sg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyfueCFjSBzVCutzvTQvePMh7fA6kEhriDpzVCFWlRqcJ5s6oIcA9ekqFPcMjrhJIJ0uVNL0TCN+/RV7Pc37ck= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:31c5:: with SMTP id i5mr20178859qte.33.1572988302725; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 13:11:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 16:11:15 -0500 Message-ID: To: Kevin Bowling Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000052ced05969fe1a0" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Amdahl UTS, AIX/370, AIX/ESA X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000052ced05969fe1a0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've long forgotten the name of the work. I worked on the proposal and part of the design study, but not the project itself. I had my hands full with leading the HP and DEC TNC stuff. IIRC Joe Hopfield was the lead on it. It was not really in the key of WINE. It was sort of cross between UWIN and Interix POSIX subsystem that now ships as WSL. I've forgotten a lot of the details now, to be honest. I seem to remember they used the SLS as part of the scheme, but I think there was a 'process' that was booted under OS/400 that took serviced UNIX/POSIX processes system functions. I'll send a note a couple of LCC alumni and see if I can find someone that knew more about it. Clem =E1=90=A7 On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 3:42 PM Kevin Bowling wrote: > Clem, > > I am very curious about this UNIX for OS/400 work it sounds either > different or much earlier than what I am familiar with. I am familiar wi= th > the PASE environment that shipped around OS/400 V4R4 (1999?). After > AS/400s started running PowerPCish CPUs (there is a bit of history there = I > won't dive into) PASE was like WINE for Linux.. same CPU arch, do some > library and linker/loader tricks to hoist a different (AIX 4.3 first) > environment within OS/400s understanding of the universe. A year or so > later, some very bright group figured to use the OS/400's Single Level > Store as the device model/device virtualization for the CPU virtualizatio= n > (LPAR) in later POWER CPUs. You could run Linux or OS/400 or AIX this > way. That work was then somewhat inverted, and pHyp was born from the > OS/400's SILC idea of machine dependent code as a light weight firmware > hypervisor in the converging iSeries and pSeries POWER systems.. they > switched the device model/device virtualization to AIX called APV or > PowerVM. > > It was nicknamed "Fortress Rochester" for a reason. They did some very > nice work. But yeah IBM was running 4 large and extremely different > computing businesses in the 1990s and probably some smaller ones too. Th= ey > were very different but the systems did interoperate pretty well given th= e > stakes. > > Regards, > Kevin > > On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 1:10 PM Clem Cole wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:03 PM Christopher Browne >> wrote: >> >>> The dates seem to decently explain the invisibility; introduction in >>> 1992 >>> >> The formal introduction of the PS/2 was April 87 (by the crew of Mash fo= r >> the TV ads IIRC). Again, if my memory serves LCC started working on UNI= X >> for the 370 in the mid'86s, actually before the PS/2 was announced, whic= h >> would be announced as AIX/370. ISC had done the original 386 port for >> Intel, IBM, and AT&T - but that was for an ISA based systems originally >> [Phil Shevrin pulled one of the best sales jobs I ever knew -- he got pa= id >> three times for the same basic work]. >> >> At some point (and I would have to ask someone like Bruce Walker or Greg >> Thiel for the better info), the contract got widen AIX to include the PS= /2 >> - a.k.a. create AIX/386. How much of the original ISC work was that bui= ld >> upon, I never knew. >> >> LCC worked for a number of years and the two AIX's were available for >> customers, probably under a special University license. The formal >> introduction was later (and '92 sounds right). But there were sites that >> had one or both before that time. I want to say, LCC worked with IBM f= or >> about 8-10 years starting in the mid-80s. BTW: They also did a UNIX port= to >> AS/400 (on top of the native OS - similar to Eunice for the VAX or >> today's MingWin and Dave Korn's UWIN stuff). I've forgotten the dates = on >> that, I want to say 93/94 time frame. >> >> Enough time has gone by, I think I can safely tell another story, WRT th= e >> AS/400. When that happened, IBM and LCC had a number oif years under th= eir >> bridge and the LCC management team thought we knew how to work with IBM. >> Since we had a base IBM contract, we all figured that could be >> added/amended to as needed. When the folks from Rochester called asking >> about a quote for the AS/400 work, our sales folks trotted out the exist= ing >> contract for AIX and figured - ok write a new SOW and we are done. Nop= e >> -- different division/different set of lawyers. Something was said to u= s >> in the form of 'Rochester Won the Baldridge Award.' I remember our CEO >> groaning - and saying something like 'Here we go again.' It was then I >> realized IBM was N different companies, each competing with each other. >> >> Clem >> =E1=90=A7 >> > --000000000000052ced05969fe1a0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've long forgotten the name of the work.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 I worked on the proposal and part of the design study, but not the proj= ect itself.=C2=A0 I had my hands full with leading the=C2=A0HP and DEC TNC = stuff.=C2=A0 IIRC Joe Hopfield was the lead on it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It wa= s not really in the key of WINE.=C2=A0 It was sort of cross between=C2=A0UW= IN and Interix POSIX subsystem that now ships as WSL.=C2=A0 I've forgot= ten a lot of the details now, to=C2=A0be honest.=C2=A0 I seem to remember t= hey used the SLS as part of the scheme, but I think there was a 'proces= s' that was booted under OS/400 that took serviced UNIX/POSIX processes= system functions.=C2=A0 I'll send a note a couple of LCC alumni and se= e if I can find someone that knew more about it.

Clem= =C2=A0 =C2=A0
3D""=E1=90=A7

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 3:42 PM= Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowlin= g@kev009.com> wrote:
Clem,

I am very = curious about this UNIX for OS/400 work it sounds either different or much = earlier than what I am familiar with.=C2=A0 I am familiar with the PASE env= ironment that shipped around OS/400 V4R4 (1999?).=C2=A0 After AS/400s start= ed running PowerPCish CPUs (there is a bit of history there I won't div= e into) PASE was like WINE for Linux.. same CPU arch, do some library and l= inker/loader tricks to hoist a different (AIX 4.3 first) environment within= OS/400s understanding of the universe.=C2=A0 A year or so later, some very= bright group figured to use the OS/400's Single Level Store as the dev= ice model/device virtualization for the CPU virtualization (LPAR) in later = POWER CPUs.=C2=A0 You could run Linux or OS/400 or AIX this way.=C2=A0 That= work was then somewhat inverted, and pHyp was born from the OS/400's S= ILC idea of machine dependent code as a light weight firmware hypervisor in= the converging iSeries and pSeries POWER systems.. they switched the devic= e model/device virtualization to AIX called APV or PowerVM.
<= br>
It was nicknamed "Fortress Rochester" for a reason.= =C2=A0 They did some very nice work.=C2=A0 But yeah IBM was running 4 large= and extremely different computing businesses in the 1990s and probably som= e smaller ones too.=C2=A0 They were very different but the systems did inte= roperate pretty well given the stakes.

Regards= ,
Kevin

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 1:10 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote= :


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:03 PM Christopher= Browne <cbbrown= e@gmail.com> wrote:
The dates seem to decently exp= lain the invisibility; introduction in 1992=C2=A0
<= div>The formal introduction of the PS/2 was April 87 (by the crew of Ma= sh for the TV ads IIRC).=C2=A0 Again, if my memory serves LCC started worki= ng on UNIX for the 370 in the mid'86s, actually before the PS/2 was ann= ounced, which would be announced as AIX/370.=C2=A0 =C2=A0ISC had done the o= riginal 386 port for Intel, IBM, and AT&T - but that was for an ISA bas= ed systems originally [Phil Shevrin pulled one of the best sales jobs I eve= r knew -- he got paid three times for the same basic work].

At some point (and I would=C2=A0have to ask= someone like Bruce Walker or Greg Thiel for the better info), the contract= got widen AIX to include the PS/2 - a.k.a. create AIX/386.=C2=A0 How much = of the original ISC work was that build upon, I never knew.=C2=A0

LCC worked for a number of years and = the two AIX's=C2=A0were available for customers, probably under a speci= al University license.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The formal introduction was later (and &= #39;92 sounds right). But there were sites that had one or both before that= time.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to say, LCC worked with IBM for about 8-10 years = starting in the mid-80s. BTW: They also did a UNIX port to AS/400=C2=A0(on top of the native OS - similar to Eunice f= or the VAX or today's MingWin and Dave Korn's UWIN stuff).=C2=A0 = =C2=A0I've forgotten the dates on that, I want to say 93/94 time frame.=

Enough time has gone by, I = think I can safely tell another story, WRT the AS/400.=C2=A0 When that happ= ened, IBM and LCC had a number oif years under their bridge and the LCC man= agement team thought we knew how to work with IBM.=C2=A0 Since we had a bas= e IBM contract, we all figured that could be added/amended to as needed.=C2= =A0 When the folks from Rochester called asking about a quote for the AS/40= 0 work, our sales folks trotted out the existing contract for AIX and figur= ed - ok write a new SOW and we are done.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Nope -- different divi= sion/different set of lawyers.=C2=A0 Something was said to us in the form o= f 'Rochester Won the Baldridge Award.'=C2=A0 =C2=A0I remember our C= EO groaning - and saying something like 'Here we go again.'=C2=A0 I= t was then I realized IBM was N different companies, each competing with ea= ch other.

Clem
<= /div>
=3D""=E1=90=A7
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