From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 4bcace63 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 17:06:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0BF4794F28; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 03:06:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2AC9480A; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 03:06:02 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="o6eiRG9l"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 04DE19480A; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 03:06:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f68.google.com (mail-wr1-f68.google.com [209.85.221.68]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4C38947D8 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 03:05:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f68.google.com with SMTP id c2so3907305wrm.8 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:05:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5WykhfBFGbtPTDUAzY/4RSRUOtbyq+vgSdCjLXTvZg8=; b=o6eiRG9lRArSi8buNcEWMd9iOVFRySRIobY6f8dvINPJFmEPOKH2QFKr6Cz1ZlgAOI Vg8RXL3PkIKUk0sGeDFD6q8BlLjWMm8phKiirVuFepHGIdn+dl3YqDRc4CwPUpnaJTPw prnsikzS0oT08fWe5jRub94z0r3vzT9/XVY/0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5WykhfBFGbtPTDUAzY/4RSRUOtbyq+vgSdCjLXTvZg8=; b=GWuLtCwHtnf2liWB4djrg0jOQNwtsReG6dz6tM/uT4pJKXUrB9O7fXvmNAHKFPmYI0 N1uYJIJgYs3zc7ThUwDrCHAndBGVxLnnngL6gXSVPyV6q2SpBzuL1+eCsuK3AU88v0eq jM9TK4BiVq/dl848HK/7xeXYbMdBnASdVFjDUwRdFXghUh8Y1bO3TSeD4EEpNihk+g3W GUq4T+ObK7PYmAqY25KVVnjc55souPb3czhWd5Is8N10SgInDJ4/jE1+atj35NTgY3al Nn+HQmMC8ij6JnxBFjmsRCK+DWol27KI5YP2mNRNkO8l0jfPqUonAxvhqN4C6HaGm8jJ H5nQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVO3TTSvJA234GG0cobvBfZJy4CJpZbOZrqbdiNcIYJdPhRi46N V7LEE85yHZL28COSOW8qpwQBBUwm4vlvLyY9MQr0jA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzDHFduCBVqDfsZteOImuQRR6H1cH4uTY281V7dc1IatE7/lviw4oqB+JAZmaRGD/YyUVVbT3PAv8kgC9KiNtU= X-Received: by 2002:adf:de90:: with SMTP id w16mr6105217wrl.217.1562864757218; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:05:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8235a090-c48a-4587-8974-23305233bc33@PU1APC01FT026.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com> <3CFC8159-08DD-4647-8CEF-FE8D196AB3C9@ccc.com> <610F6FCB-F24D-4788-953A-83E0E6456622@ccc.com> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 13:05:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: Warner Losh Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000afafdb058d6acee4" Subject: Re: [TUHS] PCC for the i386 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000afafdb058d6acee4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yup, that was Steve Ward's folks in the MIT/RTS group - it was the NU computer work. John Siber did most of the compiler work (funny, Steve Johnson and I were talking about some of that work last night at the UNIX50 party last night). tjt wrote the 68K assembler ward's folks used. I don't remember where the Z8000 assembler came, but I'm petty sure that the Intel assembler and some of the tools other John had brought back from his summers in MH. I think (but don't know for sure) the Intel 8086 assembler was done at AT&T first. IIRC it may have come out of Dale's group in Columbus. I do know Dale's group had done a Z80 C Compiler using the Ritchie Compiler at some point in 1978 timeframe (and at one time I had, but can not seem to find it, in my archives). When Intel released the 386, I believe the AT&T 8086 assembler was updated for the new 32 instructions; although who did that/where was done, I'm not sure. Steve is probably the best source for most of this as he managed the team in Summit doing the different AT&T front and back ends when they tried to centralize the compiler work for UNIX. On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 12:48 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 10:31 AM Clem cole wrote: > >> By the time of 4.2 the switch from the Ritchie and Johnson compilers at >> UCB had begun. Remember the primary output of Rms at that point was ema= cs >> and gcc. >> >> CSRG wanted the different backends for C. ThAts it. Besides the vax, >> Rms had done 68000 and 386 back ends then. >> >> With the original system V, all of AT&T, Intel and IBM paid Interactive >> Systems Corp (aka ISC) to port the System V/Vax code to a 386 ps/2 and a= n >> Intel reference system that used an ISA bus. This would be eventually >> released in source at the 386 port from AT&T. As part of the contract >> summit supplied the compiler >> >> I know the AT&T assembler with it=E2=80=99s backwards syntax from Intel = was done >> before rms did his. He was compatible with the summit assembler. I don= =E2=80=99t >> remember who=E2=80=99s 386 backend came out first. I think is was the s= ummit >> compiler but you needed a system v license which UCB did not have. >> > > There's also a fair amount of work at MIT to do Intel code generation for > 8086 (small mode) that was extended by Queens College London (I think, I > gotta grab the tapes again) to do large mode. I've run into this looking > for a compiler for the Venix source restoration project I've been tilting > at. I found those based on a cryptic comment I found somewhere online abo= ut > the tech behind Venix that wasn't from AT&T. I don't know if ISC started > with them as a base or not, nor really how the MIT compilers came about, > but they claim to be PCC based somehow. Don't know if this helps you on > your quest... BTW, I found these when I found the latest pcc-restoration > sources didn't have a working i86 backend anymore (there was once one for > Minux, but when I built it I couldn't get it to generate sensible code at > all). > > Warner > > >> Clem >> >> Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not >> quite. >> >> On Jul 11, 2019, at 8:50 AM, Jason Stevens < >> jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote: >> >> That would make sense. I was able to find some info on PCC2 here >> >> http://doc.cat-v.org/unix/unix-before-berkeley/ >> >> I'm guessing along with the adoption of emacs the csrg must have been >> further gnu synergy... Or maybe PCC2 just wasn't available outside of t= he >> labs? >> >> Or maybe by '88 gcc was already usurping many of the c compilers of the >> era. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 11:37 PM +0800, "Clem cole" >> wrote: >> >> I believe the pcc/386 came out of Steve Johnson team at Summit with the >>> PCC2 work. >>> >>> Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not >>> quite. >>> >>> On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:53 AM, Jason Stevens < >>> jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone know where the 386 port from PCC came from? >>> >>> >>> >>> While trying to build a Tahoe userland for the i386, it seems that >>> everything was built with GCC=E2=80=A6 >>> >>> Was there a PCC for the i386 around =E2=80=9988-90? It seems after the= rapid >>> demise of the Tahoe/Harris >>> >>> HCX-9 that the non Vax/HCX-9 platforms had moved to GCC? >>> >>> >>> >>> Also anyone know any good test software for LIBC? I=E2=80=99ve been tr= acing >>> through some >>> >>> strange issues rebuilding LIBC from Tahoe, where I had to include some >>> bits from >>> >>> Reno to get diropen to actually work. I would imagine there ought to >>> have been some >>> >>> platform exercise code to make sure things were actually working instea= d >>> of say >>> >>> building as much as you can, and playing rogue for a few hours to make >>> sure >>> >>> its stable enough. >>> >>> --000000000000afafdb058d6acee4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yup, that was Steve Ward's folks in the MIT/RTS gro= up - it was the NU computer work.=C2=A0 John Siber did most of the compiler= work (funny, Steve Johnson and I were talking about some of that work last= night at the UNIX50 party last night).=C2=A0 tjt wrote the 68K assembler w= ard's folks used.=C2=A0 I don't remember where the Z8000 assembler = came, but I'm petty sure that the Intel assembler and some of the tools= other John had brought back from his summers in MH.

I= think (but don't know for sure) the Intel 8086 assembler was done at A= T&T first.=C2=A0 IIRC it may have come out of Dale's group in Colum= bus.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I do know Dale's group had done a Z80 C Compiler using= the Ritchie Compiler at some point in 1978 timeframe (and at one time I ha= d, but can not seem to find it, in my archives).

When = Intel released the 386, I believe the AT&T 8086 assembler was updated f= or the new 32 instructions; although who did that/where was done, I'm n= ot sure.

Steve is probably the best source for most of= this as he managed the team in Summit doing the different AT&T front a= nd back ends when they tried to centralize the compiler work for UNIX.

On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 12:48 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:


On Thu, Jul 11= , 2019 at 10:31 AM Clem cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
By the time of 4.2 the switch from = the =C2=A0Ritchie and Johnson compilers at UCB had begun.=C2=A0 Remember th= e primary output of Rms at that point was emacs and gcc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=
CSRG wanted the different backends for C. =C2=A0 ThAts it.= =C2=A0 Besides the vax, Rms had done 68000 and 386 back ends then. =C2=A0

With the original system V, all of AT&T, Intel = and IBM paid Interactive Systems Corp (aka ISC) to port the System V/Vax co= de to a 386 ps/2 and an Intel reference system that used an ISA bus.=C2=A0 = This would be eventually released in source at the 386 port from AT&T. = =C2=A0 As part of the contract summit supplied the compiler

<= /div>
I know the AT&T assembler with it=E2=80=99s backwards syntax = from Intel was done before rms did his.=C2=A0 He was compatible with the su= mmit assembler.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t remember who=E2=80=99s 386 backend ca= me out first.=C2=A0 I think is was the summit compiler but you needed a sys= tem v license which UCB did not have.=C2=A0
There's also a fair amount of work at MIT to do Intel code= generation for 8086 (small mode) that was extended by Queens College Londo= n (I think, I gotta grab the tapes again) to do large mode. I've run in= to this looking for a compiler for the Venix source restoration project I&#= 39;ve been tilting at. I found those based on a cryptic comment I found som= ewhere online about the tech behind Venix that wasn't from AT&T. I = don't know if ISC started with them as a base or not, nor really how th= e MIT compilers came about, but they claim to be PCC based somehow. Don'= ;t know if this helps you on your quest... BTW, I found these when I found = the latest pcc-restoration sources didn't have a working i86 backend an= ymore (there was once one for Minux, but when I built it I couldn't get= it to generate sensible code at all).

Warner
=C2=A0
Clem

Sent from my PDP-= 7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.=C2=A0

On Jul 11, 2019, at 8:50 AM, Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobal= megacorp.com> wrote:

That would make sense.=C2= =A0=C2=A0 I was able to find some info on PCC2 here

I'm guessing along with the ado= ption of emacs the csrg must have been further gnu synergy...=C2=A0 Or mayb= e PCC2 just wasn't available outside of the labs?

Or maybe by '88 gcc was already= usurping many of the c compilers of the era.





On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 11:37 PM +0800, "Cl= em cole" <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

I believe the pcc/386 came out of Steve Johnson team at Summit with the PCC= 2 work. =C2=A0

Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNI= X V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.=C2=A0
=
On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:53 AM, Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com<= /a>> wrote:

Does anyone know where the 386 port from PCC cam= e from?

=C2=A0

While trying to build a Tahoe userland for the i386, it seems that ev= erything was built with GCC=E2=80=A6

Was there a = PCC for the i386 around =E2=80=9988-90?=C2=A0 It seems after the rapid demi= se of the Tahoe/Harris

HCX-9 t= hat the non Vax/HCX-9 platforms had moved to GCC?

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

Also anyone know any good test softw= are for LIBC?=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve been tracing through some

strange issues rebuilding= LIBC from Tahoe, where I had to include some bits from

Reno to get diropen to actua= lly work.=C2=A0 I would imagine there ought to have been some=

platform exercise code= to make sure things were actually working instead of say

building as much as you ca= n, and playing rogue for a few hours to make sure

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">its stable enough.

--000000000000afafdb058d6acee4--