From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26776 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2020 15:38:53 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 Aug 2020 15:38:53 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 501D59CAAA; Sat, 8 Aug 2020 01:38:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2047C9CAA4; Sat, 8 Aug 2020 01:38:11 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="Zk/Nl1SA"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 072E39C1C7; Sat, 8 Aug 2020 01:38:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f44.google.com (mail-qv1-f44.google.com [209.85.219.44]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 061AE9C1CE for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2020 01:38:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f44.google.com with SMTP id y11so926779qvl.4 for ; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 08:37:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LXL+Pgedj0spur/Gb35k+itabjSi1ut7iHlTqsn5uz4=; b=Zk/Nl1SAVB3F4V42b1NAzbDNPEYkaWkuD7GKd/V5VT/Y3w9F39n7d3xgEjk4IGyTdh hyD0Hkxe6sXjbLHCqlCJe22NIjPXahlPIQqU/nsHBaKsmd44D/f/iwSECAWsvaHSWg0J 2k8qPcfIFRC4Xu/VXC2qjOuu/WLuoLg4Khrnw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LXL+Pgedj0spur/Gb35k+itabjSi1ut7iHlTqsn5uz4=; b=PWxdkFmt2L0BUYAAlJXjTbmbOORCLW+AhHE63dTz0UvZa0Q30Pt5qUe9u/9UvaWqyz AMAVylBfPpf/cPZUFmDBll6smvnSJCycelVs8A1HnGcLPswgOft9zUB1HAmethOB287A wdbo/4h7XnJEPUEq0nZFlWNyrGx5CGSYaqp2YyZJlKxIPixghue1W9iM4kWSCSRYrhZZ 7QvAFQoqrdEVixf1JT3upnvWBE3t7sCK6URFoH5B8YCwIVvmqORzsQq90JHvwkIJCXd5 iYo33Fg8WFC3VeDJPFIajf7MMWuemSwLP+HZdA/a21nB6zhHY4LewlFOLpwDnnjMGcv8 VAaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5309En7UWt9Uc9zoK27Kj3JD4QVFOJcgBxQeB9qZ16SXEn8m4Qtx Cj7tAgzm17LeFP8zK/YLt0RMg17CtKHdYyQRFsUylQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzFVvqyWrfUlpvpolgqci1qIyMOB28XjpdSJNDbdqMWHN04D2TjI+SQlMx3YSf8TLqfKF3HwKVUuKDnDOC/9Aw= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:5749:: with SMTP id q9mr15058978qvx.56.1596814678834; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 08:37:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 11:37:32 -0400 Message-ID: To: Wesley Parish Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b45d0905ac4b631c" Subject: Re: [TUHS] [COFF] Unix and SW Releases (was V7 et al from Will) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers , TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000b45d0905ac4b631c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 11:41 PM Wesley Parish wrote: > Am I right in assuming that 2.xBSD was the state of the play on PDP while > 4.xBSD was the source tree compatible state of play on the VAXes? Sort of/in theory and all that. 2.XBSD was initially developed by a group of folks that had already invested in PDP-11s (in mainly separate I/D based 11s) and could not afford a new Vax. The 11's are address space-constrained and with the introduction of the Vax, one of the side effects of BSD was much of the Unix 'small is beautiful' / 'do one job well' / 'KISS' ideas started to be lost,* i.e. * Rob's super 'cat -v harmful' became necessary to write (along sadly was often ignored). Since CSRG (EE and CS at EE) abandoned the 11's pretty fast, there was a group (originally lead by Keith Bostic in the Stat Dept) that wanted some of the new code (particularly the networking stack and sendmail) moved to their 11's. In some ways, I was surprised that it has kept going, as the 68000 & later 386 based UNIX systems came to the world, as the economics of running an 11 started to dwindle quickly. > That if you had a VAX you got the 4.xBSD tapes, whereas if you had a PDP > you got the 2.xBSD tapes? > If you were a University or Research type that qualified for a $100 style research license, you would get a pure V7 (PDP-11) or a 32/V(Vax) tape from AT&T patent and license. Once your site had that, you were part of the source 'club' and could whatever you wanted based on the AT&T V7 license. So if you were interested in the BSD releases your team then contacted the 'ILO' (UCB's Industrial Laison Office - BTW CSRG's worked with the ILO for all the BSD tapes) and asked to obtain UCB IP (be it the CAD tools such as SPICE, or the OS work like BSD, IC process technology, *et al*). There probably was some sort tape writing, *i.e.* short fees, associated with the specific IP on the order of $100-$1000 depending on what you requested, and there might be some licensing steps (exchange of AT&T license signature pages). When you had a license from the ILO, you were part of the UCB 'club.' The original BSD and 2BSD tapes themselves were released officially by the ILO, as with 3BSD and 4/4.1BSD. By the time of 4.1a BSD and later, we had CSRG, and those releases were done by them directly after the licensing was set up by the ILO. As part of the funding and creation of CSRG, UC Berekely finally had a C30 IMP in Evans (as opposed to the VDH to LBL), so the releases were also possible via ftp from a hidden location on ucbvax. 4X originally targetted Vaxen, but famously other systems like the 386 we available on that site. By the time of the 2X releases, UC Berekely had the C30 IMP ( *i.e. *direct internet connection). So, once you were licensed, you got the keys to be able to FTP different 'tapes' (which included sources and binaries), be it 2X or 4X base But, since CSRG stopped focusing on 16-bit, the 2X stuff became more of labor of love and was a bit less formal and was done with cooperation with the CSRG team. So ... if you owned a PDP-11 and were still running it and you had a proper UCB license, then yes, you might be tempted to run 2X; but the truth is most people began to turn them off in deference to more cost-effective platforms. --000000000000b45d0905ac4b631c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 11:41= PM Wesley Parish <wobblygong@gmail.com> wrote:
Am I right in assuming that 2.xBSD was the state o= f the play on PDP while 4.xBSD was the source tree compatible st= ate of play on the VAXes?
Sort of/in theory = and all that.=C2=A0

2.XBSD was initially developed by = a group of folks that had already invested in PDP-11s (in mainly separate= =C2=A0I/D based 11s) and could not afford a new Vax.=C2=A0 The 11's are= address space-constrained=C2=A0and=C2=A0with the introduction of the Vax, = one of the side effects of BSD was much of the=C2=A0Unix 'small is beau= tiful' / 'do one job well' / 'KISS' ideas started to be= lost, i.e.=C2=A0 Rob's super 'cat -v harmful' became ne= cessary to write (along sadly was often ignored).

Sinc= e CSRG (EE and CS at EE) abandoned the 11's pretty fast, there was a gr= oup (originally lead by Keith Bostic in the Stat Dept) that wanted some of = the new code (particularly the networking stack and sendmail) moved to thei= r 11's.=C2=A0 =C2=A0In some ways, I was surprised that it has kept goin= g, as the 68000 & later 386 based UNIX systems came to the world, as th= e economics of running an 11 started to dwindle quickly.
= =C2=A0
That if = you had a VAX you got the 4.xBSD tapes, whereas if you had a PDP= you got the 2.xBSD tapes?
If you were a Universit= y=C2=A0or Research type that qualified for a $100 style research license, y= ou would=C2=A0get a pure V7 (PDP-11) or a 32/V(Vax) tape from AT&T pate= nt and license.=C2=A0 Once your site had that, you were part of the source = 'club' and could whatever you wanted based on the AT&T V7 licen= se.=C2=A0 =C2=A0So if you were interested in the BSD releases your team the= n contacted the 'ILO' (UCB's Industrial Laison Office - BTW CSR= G's worked with the ILO for all the BSD tapes) and asked to obtain UCB = IP (be it the CAD tools such as SPICE, or the OS work like BSD, IC process = technology, et al).=C2=A0 =C2=A0There probably was some sort tape wr= iting, i.e.=C2=A0short fees, associated with the specific IP on the = order of $100-$1000 depending on what you requested, and there might be som= e licensing steps (exchange of AT&T license signature pages).=C2=A0 Whe= n you had a license from the ILO, you were part of the UCB 'club.'<= /span>

The original BSD and 2BSD tapes themsel= ves were released officially by the ILO, as with 3BSD and 4/4.1BSD.=C2=A0 B= y the time of 4.1a=C2=A0 BSD and later, we had CSRG, and those releases wer= e done by them directly after the licensing was set up by the ILO.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0As part of the funding and creation of CSRG, UC Berekely=C2=A0finally= had a C30 IMP in Evans (as opposed to the VDH to LBL), so the releases wer= e also possible via ftp from a hidden location on ucbvax.=C2=A0 =C2=A04X or= iginally targetted Vaxen, but famously other systems like the 386 we availa= ble on that site.

By the time= of the 2X releases, =C2=A0UC Berekely=C2=A0had the C30 IMP (=C2=A0i.e. = direct internet connection).=C2=A0 So, once=C2=A0you were licensed, you= got the keys to be able to FTP different 'tapes' (which included= =C2=A0sources and binaries), be it 2X or 4X base =C2=A0 But, since CSRG sto= pped focusing on 16-bit, the 2X stuff became more of labor of love and was = a bit less formal and was done with cooperation with the CSRG team.

So ...=C2=A0 if you owned a=C2=A0PDP-11 and were still runnin= g it and you had a proper=C2=A0UCB license, then yes, you might be tempted = to run 2X; but the=C2=A0truth is most people began to turn them off in=C2= =A0deference=C2=A0to more cost-effective platforms.=C2=A0



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