From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 98931f8c for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 16:21:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E3679A21C4; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 02:21:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E2A94BB2; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 02:21:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6915294BB2; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 01:53:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm1-f48.google.com (mail-wm1-f48.google.com [209.85.128.48]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B612894113 for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 01:53:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-f48.google.com with SMTP id a8-v6so4024812wmf.1 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:53:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dAH7u+fKdr3CzOneekxlHz8ByrdtTuJLf3wj+VCAtKU=; b=Nk6SZQ8tXHcnlxj+HODYf2PWWE6rZPwqzuJvytTtxV1q1WnarP3+RFD+I2/OEfVFuJ qcjvYvltIk7+xZDfUnl9kQRPK5deMG/L9fgWW+Ck5HcuTwylnzXk1zagUEGCFeE6KLx6 GQf4zkltN9a8kKvsOUYjmTHTnawRYX8BMJeUU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=dAH7u+fKdr3CzOneekxlHz8ByrdtTuJLf3wj+VCAtKU=; b=FI7hX0LO3d/rJkhHhpKRhEyrO0n8Stqtf0kdsNFBORUqkbCGt8kcVe6tZn1g0+xm/7 33aRRH40oYF9oysoFHnZmYpjCdhxGB4TEnsga4haKMuF+riBi5TTNwuhR0yhCkPjIHzg 0xD9+PRTmwKkd/xQlkhEBW/Go97JX7HlGEK6L7iDYvLNLArTb1p6Zpl7L2nXa29+WosB tZW+dGfuWBEE/A5JY7sodWlJKUICxdshpqnLPg3K/LDYaISS0m6zt2oENCy8YZ9nmP41 SkKD2n9cnYQqbmK3O2JnxIfyZXBqh60zIPBKGyVyDjLvafGiydJMPNZswDKR8ht/MpEX J4Mg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gI+Nvy01RCX/2xWIpfVnyCbJjmh/n7isVv+4/4gmw0a/9SPkMhE rUmTuxFzmLTfnnifZdSelErEq/tVHk8CzL2wLlcmE0GDDoTG6A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dPis61sZRwmNQiHHRHI6P2S14p+vXgaYm96eQt0WrnVCK4ZN50d2BYm8RkcMBcEnp7U7huXYjGsB9m0RmZ/lk= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:e12:: with SMTP id 18-v6mr8480423wmo.30.1540655626838; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:53:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201810271159.w9RBxZaQ124546@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> In-Reply-To: <201810271159.w9RBxZaQ124546@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> From: Clem Cole Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 11:53:20 -0400 Message-ID: To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005bfde5057937d7a8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Reconstructed and newly set UNIX Manual X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000005bfde5057937d7a8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Now it could be that v7 troff is perfectly capable of generating the > manual just like older troff would have. Angelo - If you worried about the 'look' of a page, I think the thing to be more worried about is the differences in very early troff is the definition of the CAT typesetter and how it maps what you have now (PostScript). Programs like vcat and later pscat, that were built by reverse engineering the output of troff and then did a sort of crude mapping to the raster fonts that were publically available. At the time, the primary fonts kicking around (the Arpanet) were the Hershe= y Fonts (which were vector fonts for CRTs). I'm fairly sure that Les Earnest and Larry Tessler used them with a film recorder at Stanford on the PDP-10 being driven by "Pub" (which was a contemporary to troff and ran on the PDP-10s). Rich Johnsson of CMU wrote the code for the original XGP* (at 200 dpi) and I'm not sure who did the translation from vectors to bits although Chuck Geschke (Wulf= =E2=80=99s first PhD student @ CMU, founder of Adobe) I think had his hand in it ** The original UNIX 'plotter' emulator for troff (the vcat family of UNIX tools originally done by Tom Ferin at UCSF IIRC) used the Hershey fonts that came from the XGP work from the PDP-10. This worked and as users, we were pretty happy because most of us did not have access to real typesetters, much less something as cool at the XGP. But the fonts were 'ugly' in comparison to future ideas like Metafont an PS, where as, Adobe's pscat was using a more precise definition. That said, in those days my eye was not trained enough to see a many of the differences. But some production oriented folks (like Tim O'Reilly) used to complain that is the AT&T output (CAT4) was different from what the Imagen*** produced [which was the first large scale 'laser printer' replacement after the Bensen Varian (/dev/va) and other 'wet' plotters]. Clem * In '64 Xerox invented 'long distance xerography' (LDX) - which was a FAX system that used a monochrome CRT to draw a single line of pixels on a xerographic 'drum.' Xerox loaned/gave one to CMU, Stanford and MIT in '72. CMU spliced on to a PDP-11 and had it running my March '72 [BTW, I recently found pictures of the original toilet paper diploma printing hack using it]. Stanford and MIT duplicated the CMU trick, with Stanford's XGP coming online Jan '73 and MIT sometime thereafter]. **Great historical side story - Chuck Geschke filed the first PhD printed on XGP (at CMU) and it was originally rejected because the CMU library wanted the 'originals.' It took Wulf 6-9 months to convince the administration there were no other 'masters' - the library had the originals. ***We had a early Imagen at Masscomp, Tim duplicated our set up in Cambridge shortly there after. In fact, I know Tim ended buying a CAT/4 early on in ORA's life (used IIRC) -- which I think the first used to set the X-11 manuals, which of course what what 'made' ORA. --0000000000005bfde5057937d7a8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Now it could be that v7 troff is perfectly capable of= generating the
> manual just like older troff would have.

Angelo - If you worried about the 'look' of a page, I t= hink the thing to be more worried about is the differences in very early tr= off is the definition of the CAT typesetter and how it maps what you have n= ow (PostScript).=C2=A0 =C2=A0Programs like vcat and later pscat, that were = built by reverse engineering the output of troff and then did a sort of cru= de mapping to the raster fonts that were publically available.

=
At the time, the primary fonts kicking around (the Arpanet) were t= he Hershey Fonts=C2=A0(which were vector fonts for CRTs).=C2=A0 I'm fairly sure that L= es Earnest and Larry Tessler used them with a film recorder at Stanford on = the PDP-10 being driven by "Pub" (which was a contemporary to tro= ff and ran on the PDP-10s).=C2=A0 =C2=A0Rich Johnsson of CMU wrote the code= for the original XGP* (at 200 dpi) and I'm not sure who did the transl= ation from vectors to bits although=C2=A0Chuck Geschke (Wulf=E2=80=99s first PhD student @ CMU, founder of Adobe) I think had his = hand in it **=C2=A0

The original UNIX = 'plotter' emulator for troff (the vcat family of UNIX tools origina= lly done by Tom Ferin at UCSF IIRC) used the Hershey fonts that came from t= he XGP work from the PDP-10.=C2=A0 =C2=A0This worked and as users, we were = pretty happy because most of us did not have access to real typesetters, mu= ch less something as cool at the XGP.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But the fonts were 'u= gly' in comparison to future ideas like Metafont an PS, where as, Adobe= 's pscat was using a more precise definition.


Clem

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ">* In '64 Xerox invented 'long distance xerography' (LDX) - wh= ich was a FAX system that used a monochrome CRT to draw a single line of pi= xels on a xerographic 'drum.'=C2=A0 =C2=A0Xerox loaned/gave one to = CMU, Stanford and MIT in '72.=C2=A0 =C2=A0CMU spliced on to a PDP-11 an= d had it running my March '72 [BTW, I recently found pictures of the or= iginal toilet paper diploma printing hack using it].=C2=A0 Stanford and MIT= duplicated the CMU trick, with Stanford's XGP coming online Jan '7= 3 and MIT sometime thereafter].

**Great historic= al=C2=A0side story -=C2=A0Chuck=C2=A0Gesc= hke=C2=A0filed the firs= t PhD printed on XGP (at CMU) and it was originally rejected because the CM= U library wanted the 'originals.'=C2=A0 =C2=A0It took Wulf 6-9 mont= hs to convince the administration=C2=A0there were no other 'masters'= ; - the library had the originals.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">***We had a early Imagen at Masscomp, Tim duplicated our= set up in Cambridge shortly there after.=C2=A0 =C2=A0In fact, I know Tim e= nded buying a CAT/4=C2=A0 early on in ORA's life (used IIRC) -- which I= think the first used to set the X-11 manuals, which of course what what &#= 39;made' ORA.

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