From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26928 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2021 15:38:51 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 29 Mar 2021 15:38:51 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 355509C8DF; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:38:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4C59C82C; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:38:28 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="fG/M0OEo"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A187B9C82C; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:38:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f179.google.com (mail-qk1-f179.google.com [209.85.222.179]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC1399C829 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:38:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f179.google.com with SMTP id c3so12798727qkc.5 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 08:38:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CdbysRmsDCwgxbpbs+IM606if+rV0ZGpnoR6Zr6hQWI=; b=fG/M0OEoCN5HUCtuBoB6RdOIhmRe+XFlqpf41RHPHpWUmquOj2VCtpkhSr6a0mtJa4 1yhz7cCnGBMFBQrM+WPE5b/DDir6xnpqpY0lvZFh0YONmTWXjCKvIQBrkLhdYXXXdLqz 9X9YrGiUOR/WT2AjwpOZTyouQzQssqstT/xlA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CdbysRmsDCwgxbpbs+IM606if+rV0ZGpnoR6Zr6hQWI=; b=aKRS28Mvi/WXQAap61GBgWk0OFWaWFYRPvDT2sVP7ggjs/uIw5yUPYFA4no1LM9/X8 Y/sJVuFp+bwGE2xlD2alEiXEPfHZYmSwoxfhFtpqE0JXVnKX6qUS9VocBVCMHo0d2Tov ywS4w+E0YVcpuzx6udeK/hQ1e7DzakVWtELZSe7KLbINHpxafRXFgtBj5i/qu87yWprQ mLUennxOgp92WJbFLeOzO3s+EnY44EVGADDVOVio58hrG1BPiUJiGCkB1B3x/uYJ8y7t J9LpD4vZj2zgmQb6ouvp0nPaZYoAANADWWFTybx5+mviLFa/arfcNSK0aHXcrXajUlvy 3Jpw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533eUDjxvahGJqdsXfJsAV8AJlxHUXky5QUCrhyZ+gRNo3e60meN FnAim8kFJl0i3Y2iJTE9CegQQ1ZsB1BSU5buZiagzKu8jwL/nymL X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy8tfuDDo6qvndiUUOvpf/skaoQOgG/kGH4nrAcsvl52ANZVTPHDK2H2qe+vwVKmGNObtO13NjEDaH/6CdSU0M= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:522:: with SMTP id h2mr26221828qkh.476.1617032304589; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 08:38:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210329143449.GA28080@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:37:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: Anders Damsgaard Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001b120005beaeace9" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Remember the ed thread? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000001b120005beaeace9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anders -- good for you. That said, as one of those 'grey beards,' can I recommend that you stop, and go to a technical library or bookstore and find yourself a copy of Rob and Brian's wonderful book: "*The Unix Programming Environment*" (*a.k.a* "UPE" or ISBN 0-13-937699-2) *then do the exercises*. That book is still relevant today - a little secret, I give a copy of it and "*Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment*" (*a.k.a.* "APUE") to all my new engineers - even though they are all using 'Linux' for their work. To those that object at first, I remind them, Linux is just the current and most popular implementation of the ideas from Ken, Dennis, Doug, and friends and I'm sure they will learn something from the time invested[1]. FWIW: Besides learning ed (which will help you unlock some of the mysteries of other UNIX tools like grep and sed), take a shot at looking at the introduction to nroff/troff (as has been discussed here - not to restart a war). Learning to use a 'document compiler' like the troff family is never a bad investment. Have fun, Clem 1.] BTW I have yet had a young engineer that actually did try the exercises not come back and say something like "Wow, I never knew ...." I don't gloat, but I smile inside, know that I just made them a more effective for our team. If they ask, I point out I had been using UNIX and hacking on the kernel most every day for at least 10 years when it first appeared in the early 80's (84/85 I think), and I learned a few tricks when I read it. =E1=90=A7 =E1=90=A7 On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 11:16 AM Anders Damsgaard wrote: > * Larry McVoy [2021-03-29 07:34:49 -0700]: > > >I had *.clients.your-server.de crawling mcvoy.com in violation of my > >robots.txt. For whatever reason, the tty settings (or something) > >made vi not work, I dunno what the deal is, stty -tabs didn't help. > > > >So I had to resort to ed to write and debug the little program below. > >It was surprisingly pleasant, it's probably the first time I've used ed > >for anything real in at least a decade. My fingers still know it. > > > >+1 for ed. It's how many decades old and still useful? > > I recently learned ed(1) for the first time (I have a unix beard, but it'= s > not grey yet). I found ed to be very efficient and useful for small fixes= , > even on slow connections. This beginner's tutorial was very helpful > for me: gopher://katolaz.net/0/ed_tutorial.txt > > (https mirror for non-gopher clients: > https://adamsgaard.dk/npub/ed_tutorial.txt ) > --0000000000001b120005beaeace9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anders -- good for you.=C2=A0

That= said, as one of those 'grey beards,' can I recommend=C2=A0that you= stop, and go to a technical library or bookstore and find yourself a copy = of Rob and Brian's wonderful book: "The Unix Programming Enviro= nment" (a.k.a "UPE" or ISBN 0-13-937699-2)=C2=A0= =C2=A0then do the exercises.=C2=A0 That book is still relevan= t today - a little secret, I give a copy of it and "Advanced Progra= mming in the Unix Environment" (a.k.a. "APUE") to= all my new engineers - even though they are all using 'Linux' for = their=C2=A0work.=C2=A0 To those that object at first, I remind them,=C2=A0L= inux is just the current and most popular implementation of the ideas from = Ken, Dennis, Doug, and friends and I'm sure they will learn something f= rom the time=C2=A0invested[1].

FWIW: Besides learning = ed (which will help you unlock some of the mysteries of other UNIX tools li= ke grep and sed), take a shot at looking at the introduction to nroff/troff= (as has been discussed here - not to restart=C2=A0a war).=C2=A0 Learning t= o use a 'document compiler' like the troff family=C2=A0is never a b= ad investment.

Have fun,
Clem


1.]=C2=A0 BTW I have yet had a young engineer that actua= lly did try the exercises=C2=A0not come back and say something like "W= ow, I never knew ...."=C2=A0 =C2=A0I don't gloat, but I smile insi= de, know that I just made them a more effective for our team.=C2=A0 If they= ask, I point out I had been using UNIX and hacking on the kernel most ever= y day for at least 10 years when it first appeared in the early 80's (8= 4/85 I think), and I learned a few tricks when I read it.
3D""=E1=90= =A7
3D""=E1=90=A7

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 11:16 AM A= nders Damsgaard <anders@adamsgaard.dk> wrote:
* Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> [2021-03-29 07:34:49 -0700]:

>I had *.clients.your-server.de crawling mcvoy.com in violation of my=
>robots.txt.=C2=A0 For whatever reason, the tty settings (or something)<= br> >made vi not work, I dunno what the deal is, stty -tabs didn't help.=
>
>So I had to resort to ed to write and debug the little program below. >It was surprisingly pleasant, it's probably the first time I've= used ed
>for anything real in at least a decade.=C2=A0 My fingers still know it.=
>
>+1 for ed.=C2=A0 It's how many decades old and still useful?

I recently learned ed(1) for the first time (I have a unix beard, but it= 9;s
not grey yet). I found ed to be very efficient and useful for small fixes,<= br> even on slow connections.=C2=A0 This beginner's tutorial was very helpf= ul
for me: gopher://katolaz.net/0/ed_tutorial.txt

(https mirror for non-gopher clients:
https://adamsgaard.dk/npub/ed_tutorial.txt )
--0000000000001b120005beaeace9--