From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15598 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2022 19:26:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 31 Dec 2022 19:26:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6F1423CF; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 05:26:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f45.google.com (mail-vs1-f45.google.com [209.85.217.45]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73D4A41C80 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 05:26:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f45.google.com with SMTP id p30so18791614vsr.1 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2022 11:26:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=LSN3aI9jx+vpqIsYOWkG8zs3tbz3ZeeX7Sp/nPdBiko=; b=YEWSXi7isVcNiLWvWLei+neFXvRU818DM2VmeoSGmGLIzhcaheP8f/XzQm1M2XiNLa lPwpQtePL9bVwGPphB3S/ClJzWdKw8D0nD1PDkLzIzj/QcpedZ5IAI2+62m9gxls+LUO Nk9DKU3GMZyDxTc70g0JMoUeXMuzJonGc0Gm8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=LSN3aI9jx+vpqIsYOWkG8zs3tbz3ZeeX7Sp/nPdBiko=; b=4YKQ2fuw1pp2czy4TfLmt11xFHWdsPFiRQTgLwpgNrFkJp8C6plMv3Cb0IjXtyEEnL ql94oiE02XNXxuMLM2BoHCb2Jwgqu0CCelYLR1BVshZsbcVLDtayUSDkFe4gKGFQgBvi WN/+8ZqJD8C0yax8XyGT8dqdKXFevSFfectQUHwGcBqC6eTMI5VXbP6y6I3HzRzeKtmH W00VJgiIsdYfrLmGyOZhe9lBWlfjzeJmE7Uqxxb57Av1Wdge5BasOW8ICu1SHGGYUCcp feQ76tzX0b6OhlatS3b7NIzcgEcKvIVDbOvkN+WB+iuyOyX53M6doddC9qg+rBuNgYIF InAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krsgNeh0SNq7OU5nsdRjQLosKFY8ZBlkbbcLhqlQCs+Zmfd6o13 XnPgsqLcN4ovW4vLz9C+8M/GMnhACxFBYmyvrupIwr0R5wZSFc6O X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXsZsNv+WuU0nWgV+mAUF+ASm6c8anuTYv9OlKawFtNX3oTwhm2xxJxxr5qQMdiThMLXUAg61q87N7VC/aNqqeE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:2227:b0:3b5:25d7:ecf6 with SMTP id d7-20020a056102222700b003b525d7ecf6mr3241161vsb.52.1672514712521; Sat, 31 Dec 2022 11:25:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <464819f0-d2f6-2a60-6481-a194f4428b4d@case.edu> <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> <8ca17d52-a25a-dbbf-e1f0-d743b8884cfa@in-ulm.de> <202212302048.2BUKmBBs253245@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20221231114037.7D30921FB4@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <202212311849.2BVIntjP356028@darkstar.fourwinds.com> In-Reply-To: <202212311849.2BVIntjP356028@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 14:24:46 -0500 Message-ID: To: Jon Steinhart Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000525df305f124ad3e" Message-ID-Hash: 32NM5M2DEN7LLISB2PJ5NJOXREL5QM23 X-Message-ID-Hash: 32NM5M2DEN7LLISB2PJ5NJOXREL5QM23 X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000525df305f124ad3e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" below On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 1:50 PM Jon Steinhart wrote: > My memory is really fuzzy on this. I recall that job control came along > with csh which I used until bash. Close. That was the wide distribution of it. Kulp created it originally for his PDP-11 system in the late 1970s. I'm not sure how, but wnj saw it and imported the idea to UCB. Joy had stopped hacking on the 11 by then. So he added the kernel support for Job Control to 4.0 and hacked on his own shell to add the user interface. This would get widely distributed as in 4.1BSD and since job control was in csh, and not in sh (and job had made the root use csh ) BSD users learned to used job control from there; since 4.1BSD release that spread with wings. > At the time there were hardly any > graphics displays used as interactive devices. I'm talking Berkeley job > control here; Right - which is Kulp job control to be fair. > I seem to remember that someone got wedged into System V > that was awful and unusable. > IIRC it was in SVR2 that a version of a job control system added some of the semantics of Kulp's scheme to the kernel, but not all as you point out and it was pretty disappointing if you had grown up on BSD systems. Later POSIX would pick up the Kulp/BSD Job Control definition and by SVR3/SVR4 AT&T fleshed out all all of the semantics. --000000000000525df305f124ad3e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
below

On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 1:50 PM Jon Steinhart <jon@fourwinds.com> wrote:
= My memory is really fuzzy on this.=C2=A0 I recall that job control came alo= ng
with csh which I used until bash.=C2=A0
Close.=C2=A0 That was the wide distribution of it.=C2=A0 Kulp crea= ted it originally for his PDP-11 system in the late 1970s.=C2=A0 I'm no= t sure how, but =C2=A0wnj saw =C2=A0it and imported the=C2=A0idea to UCB.= =C2=A0 Joy had stopped hacking on the 11 by then.=C2=A0 So =C2=A0he added t= he kernel support for Job Control to 4.0 and hacked on his own shell to add= the user interface.=C2=A0 This would get widely distributed as =C2=A0in 4.= 1BSD and since job control was in csh, and not in sh (and job had made the = root use csh ) BSD users learned to used job control from there; since =C2= =A04.1BSD release that spread with wings.=C2=A0

=
=C2=A0
At the time there were hardly any<= br> graphics displays used as interactive devices.=C2=A0 I'm talking Berkel= ey job
control here;
Right - which is = Kulp job control to be fair.

=C2=A0
I seem to remember that someone got wedged into System V
that was awful and unusable.
IIR= C it was in SVR2 that a version of a job control system added some of the s= emantics of Kulp's scheme to the kernel, but not all as you=C2=A0point = out and it=C2=A0was pretty disappointing if you had grown up on BSD systems= .=C2=A0 Later POSIX would pick up the Kulp/BSD Job Control definition and b= y SVR3/SVR4 AT&T fleshed out all all of the semantics.
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