From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 344c353a for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:19:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6AB489EE01; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:19:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2D509E5BE; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:19:04 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b=Wx03jWqG; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D88CE9E5BE; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:19:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-it0-f42.google.com (mail-it0-f42.google.com [209.85.214.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 256AE9E5BD for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:19:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-it0-f42.google.com with SMTP id 188-v6so12558553ita.5 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 07:19:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Df15R+s7PJ+OBQk5DT7jBc+rj4/YoxxKGessHpLNu+U=; b=Wx03jWqG+tV/Y+Ie76Cj4mP2ldp1VORQg4TTW57Xca5OLsog8ABIaXGgd4i3Z2TET1 dL1t17E3crDtVoiMog4wNxgYyCRM2/ieAguA/r/SSUngUAqwCnZOtfSGVYRn0+jxsLqv YyTuXG/92aUoF1aIWh5XUxOd8/RFwiZ/nq1Sc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Df15R+s7PJ+OBQk5DT7jBc+rj4/YoxxKGessHpLNu+U=; b=MHs3o+AMmZ57pS60cH6otM2jGaNNQHN59dmeWzC0/G79E+VVKWwfIO1ZlwjMYuLExH Lc49v/E1tDjLKVHYsaVGXdqtQi2y0edXIL7fcW77knLxu3XA5GKyY51ToLoBtNhUD1UU KfBCwtdZp4+NkBSIOxf/cjYSmoWH/QRSmf1f1HblhQltktYoQKIg+NfLk7APMA0YG5Uh lNk9D28sXm8a/GT2VNKG9eVeMfA8jqTXjfhwmV1EsRqeOlE8yHBS+JSDA4Ewjkj1dZoZ T/lS9qYAh+DqIaNF8yLJtiTngi9ghXrHX34pKEJJBoYqMHIc3iM1+0h6vyqivt70S+fW vkeA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2oHkEn03rEB6gkJ1cxKmUE6gZRFTdUyc+20E6/Ow5zMmw5wvKt 8a4V8g++qe4iI2TqW4+TZjNh5x2DiLMAZInV/kJC2A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfe4ve9tpIJrA8piHjeDXEnwdQ7xVL3DAIptOSpbxbR944+ZZgdtiDd2u8nbqvxRc4Q6xZ0qG08V5uhmx7bJHk= X-Received: by 2002:a24:1cc8:: with SMTP id c191-v6mr1112279itc.139.1529936340357; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 07:19:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a4f:ca8a:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 07:18:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <09ee8833-c8c0-8911-751c-906b737209b7@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <20180621234706.GA23316@minnie.tuhs.org> <20180622142846.GS21272@mcvoy.com> <20180622145402.GT21272@mcvoy.com> <20180622151751.BEK9i%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <20180622192505.mfig_%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <89e5ae21-ccc0-5c84-837b-120a1a7d9e26@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <20180623144959.M9byU%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <20180623223851.LcBjy%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <09ee8833-c8c0-8911-751c-906b737209b7@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 10:18:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: Grant Taylor Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000018aceb056f781015" Subject: Re: [TUHS] off-topic list X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000018aceb056f781015 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 8:18 PM, Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote: > > > What little I know about the MH type mail stores and associated utilities > are indeed quite powerful. =E2=80=8BYep, their power and flaw all rolled together actually. Until = I had Pachyderm on Tru64/Alpha with AltaVista under the covers (which was gmail's predecessor), I ran a flavor of MH from the time Bruce (Borden - MH's author) first released it on the 6th edition on the Rand USENIX tape. =E2= =80=8B I'm going to guess for about 25 years. Although for the last 8-10 years, I ran a post processor user interface called 'HM' (also from Rand) that was curses based that split the screen into two. > I think they operate under the premise that each message is it's own > file =E2=80=8BCorrect - which is great, other than on small systems it chews up = inodes and disk space which for v6 and v7 could be a problem. =E2=80=8BBut it me= ans everything was always ASCII and easy to grok and any tool from an editor to macro processor could be inserted. It also meant that unlike AT&T "mail", the division between the MUA and the MTA was first declared by the Rand and understood in Unix and used in the original UofI ArpaNet code (before Kurt's delivermail [sendmail's predecessor] which was part of UCB Mail, or the MIT mailer ArpaNet hacks that would come later). BTW: I may have the the original Rand MH release somewhere. We ran it at Tektronix on V6 on the 11/60 and then V7 on the TekLabs 11/70, as I brought it with me. We hacked the MTA portion to talk smtpd under Bruce's UNET code to our VMS/SMTPD at some point. > and that you work in something akin to a shell if not your actual OS shel= l. =E2=80=8BExactly. =E2=80=8BYour shell or emacs if you so desired - whatev= er your native system interface was. HM took the idea a little further to make things more screen oriented and later versions of MH picked some of the HM stuff I'm told; but I had started to use Pachyderm - which was search based. > I think the MH commands are quite literally unix command that can be > called from the unix shell. I think this is in the spirit of simply > enhancing the shell to seem as if it has email abilities via the MH > commands. Use any traditional unix text processing utilities you want to > manipulate email. =E2=80=8BAbsolutely. I do find myself, pulling things out of gmail, someti= mes so I can do Unix tricks to inbound mail that gmail will not let me do. And when I want to do anything really automating on the send side, I have MH installed and it calls the local MTA. But I admit, the indexing that search gives you is incredibly powerful for day to day use and I could not go back. to MH. --00000000000018aceb056f781015 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 8:18 PM, Grant= Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
What little I know about the MH type mail stores and associated utilities a= re indeed quite powerful.
=E2=80=8BYep, their power and flaw all rolled together actually.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0Until I had Pachyderm on Tru64/Alpha with AltaVista under the = covers (which was gmail's predecessor), I ran a flavor of MH from the t= ime Bruce (Borden - MH's author) first released it on the 6th edition o= n the Rand USENIX tape. =E2=80=8B=C2=A0 I'm going to guess for about 25= years.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Although for the last 8-10 years, I ran a post processo= r user interface called 'HM' (also from Rand) that was curses based= that split the screen into two.


= =C2=A0
=C2=A0 I= think they operate under the premise that each message is it's own fil= e
=E2= =80=8BCorrect - which is great, other than on small systems it chews up ino= des and disk space which for v6 and v7 could be a problem.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=8BBut it means everything was always ASCII and easy to grok and any too= l from an editor to macro processor could be inserted.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It also = meant that unlike AT&T "mail", the division between the MUA a= nd the MTA was first declared by the Rand and understood in Unix and used i= n the original UofI ArpaNet code (before Kurt's delivermail=C2=A0 [send= mail's predecessor] which was part of UCB Mail, or the MIT mailer ArpaN= et hacks that would come later).

BTW: I may have the the original Rand MH release somewhere.= =C2=A0 We ran it at Tektronix on V6 on the 11/60 and then V7 on the TekLabs= 11/70, as I brought it with me.=C2=A0 We hacked the MTA portion to talk sm= tpd under Bruce's UNET code to our VMS/SMTPD at some point.

=C2=A0
and that you work in something akin to a shell if not your = actual OS shell.
=E2=80= =8BExactly.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=8BYour shell = or emacs if you so desired - whatever your native system interface was.=C2= =A0 HM took the idea a little further to make things more screen oriented a= nd later versions of MH picked some of the HM stuff I'm told; but I had= started to use Pachyderm - which was search based.

<= div>=C2=A0
=C2= =A0 I think the MH commands are quite literally unix command that can be ca= lled from the unix shell.=C2=A0 I think this is in the spirit of simply enh= ancing the shell to seem as if it has email abilities via the MH commands.= =C2=A0 Use any traditional unix text processing utilities you want to manip= ulate email.
=E2=80=8BAb= solutely.=C2=A0 I do find myself, pulling things out of gmail, sometimes so= I can do Unix tricks to inbound mail that gmail will not let me do.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0And when I want to do anything really automating on the send side, I = have MH installed and it calls the local MTA.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But I admit, the = indexing that search gives you is incredibly powerful for day to day use an= d I could not go back. to MH.

=C2=A0
=
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