From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC207316C2 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 16:14:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC57942679; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 01:14:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2d]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C493D42678 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 01:14:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-4b24d969db1so288010137.0 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 07:14:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1734102883; x=1734707683; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iwnPVi0KMEZKhRZ7W4isWB822kZpiauoi9lEVPwYli0=; b=jXxSZgokU45Lp0az91BLLGoqFJoueQqPavCxi+Pt/Nq6jPiC6+Gck6Jsvt1gbDv8x+ MLH+nWjF1ZPi+OBB8noPyhPv6bD/Dh+tm6t3QI8gqlAPoByJANc6MG3X6X4Ca5edTzhZ cjSiHnqP2WWv7qkmcRtg40FcKBCaugWZSYlfg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734102883; x=1734707683; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=iwnPVi0KMEZKhRZ7W4isWB822kZpiauoi9lEVPwYli0=; b=fXjCVhcx7owEKjFJeLnCV/WMj6wsjCvegjPGQML7rji8yeBQkMDjNhHeyXoy3VqGL/ t6+v6a65DlVfvGdMVMAdCs+5Ky4cvBj1YC6Ww0yAhrIxg30569iYRgRRtwRW/MQ3Zx1n jD2nr0a7nggCkvAMruswvpHoWeSE0xhlYIEWdQANkmyg7ZuoL2eEoNuMD/wK3m4cfnRo fNY6ypycZ+8N1XqODiglSYzveEnYQCr2ydev0qnWale7xW0VZ0Qt4or8cm529iIBLFoW DqZ9yYosN2E8E7S6TinkzvNSCqa08Az7XVNyPWcZyeyDYbPh9Tyc3KfphBKU1b5gNhz/ fVlA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz2BAl444C9RIoOJnZpWebkLOjsTP3CPBFB32+vGXE5+Xdmo7if 1lV+5WIYjksTmyfwcyrUcwchg3xGogHPbtdlHcK3ii/IoQJNeErUR6EFRNe99L04peGdcfhmeOS 9O361MxfMzZcxMEAGqW7SDxO2MIQaY7c2H9V4 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctbNeiOJUbCOhbvVkfCYvD9tAOQNXO68IrxZ4CB6D5K+uR/Tvspd7GuMqsq4my rXys05fZl0prwCnMKtjv2CM74+dfQiivZN4Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGb/Q16nKwHB+1N+zazfn+M4XJmYonUBJ5+0XaoOvsQ5ZiIgDBWnHRB5Mt5FBCmqwao5ZQ1lur2h5gjgzNKnI0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:8090:b0:4b2:48f8:b5b0 with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-4b25dc8cd96mr3365526137.10.1734102882648; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 07:14:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:14:06 -0500 Message-ID: To: Dan Cross Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000531cfc0629284a31" Message-ID-Hash: GY3WH74S327VG52AMX3HW7ELUHHKVNNT X-Message-ID-Hash: GY3WH74S327VG52AMX3HW7ELUHHKVNNT X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: BSD talk program? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000531cfc0629284a31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes -- I can give this history. Kipp wrote an early version for 4.1BSD - but it is not the version in the releases. It ran on Ernie and did not do as much. I had used a different program on the PDP-10's and the ARPANET and I started over when Joy added sockets for 4.1A. I also made the infamous use of vax integers instead of network integers (and I knew better - but really did not think about until a few years later when I was at Masscomp and compiled it for the 68000 -- ugh). That version still had a couple of bugs in it (i.e. hung in the 4.1A networking code occasionally), but worked well enough on the CAD systems. I went away to a USENIX conference and while I was gone, my officemate Peter (Moore) took my code and fixed the problem, plus he put it into RCS. I gave that to Sam and that's the version that went out in 4.1C and beyond. Clem =E1=90=A7 =E1=90=A7 On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 9:29=E2=80=AFAM Dan Cross wrote: > I'm curious if anyone has any history they can share about the BSD > "talk" program. > > I was fond of this back when it was still (relatively) common, but > given the way it's architected I definitely see why it fell out of use > as the Internet grew. Still, does anybody know what the history behind > it is? Initially, I thought it was written by Mike Karels, but that > was just my speculation from SCCS spelunking, and looking at the > sources from 4.2, I see RCS header strings that indicate it was > written by "moore" (Peter Moore?). talk.c says, "Written by Kipp > Hickman". > > It seems to have arrived pretty early on with respect to the > introduction of TCP/IP in BSD: the README alludes to some things > coming up in 4.1c. Clem, you seem to have had a hand in it, and are > credited (along with Peter Moore) for making it work on 4.1a. > > So I guess the question is, what was the motivation? Was it just to > have a more pleasing user-to-user communications experience, or was > discussion across the network an explicit goal? There's a note in > talk.c ("Modified to run between hosts by Peter Moore, 8/19/82") that > suggests this wasn't the original intent. Who thought up the > character-at-a-time display mode? > > Thanks for any insights. > > - Dan C. > --000000000000531cfc0629284a31 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes -- I can give=C2=A0this history.
Kipp wrote an=C2=A0early version for 4.1BSD - but it is not the vers= ion in the releases. It ran on Ernie and did not do as much.
I had = used a different program on the PDP-10's and the ARPANET and I started = over when Joy added sockets for 4.1A. I also made the infamous use of vax i= ntegers instead of network integers=C2=A0(and I knew better - but really di= d not think about until a few years later when I was at Masscomp and compil= ed it for the 68000 -- ugh).=C2=A0 That version still had a couple of bugs = in it (i.e. hung in the 4.1A networking code occasionally), but worked well= enough on the CAD systems.=C2=A0 I went away to a USENIX conference and wh= ile I was gone, my officemate=C2=A0 Peter (Moore) took my code and fixed th= e problem, plus he put it into=C2=A0 RCS.=C2=A0 I gave that to Sam and that= 's the version that went out in 4.1C and beyond.

C= lem


3D""=E1=90=A7
3D""=E1=90=A7
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 9:29=E2=80=AFAM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> = wrote:
I'm c= urious if anyone has any history they can share about the BSD
"talk" program.

I was fond of this back when it was still (relatively) common, but
given the way it's architected I definitely see why it fell out of use<= br> as the Internet grew. Still, does anybody know what the history behind
it is?=C2=A0 Initially, I thought it was written by Mike Karels, but that was just my speculation from SCCS spelunking, and looking at the
sources from 4.2, I see RCS header strings that indicate it was
written by "moore" (Peter Moore?).=C2=A0 talk.c says, "Writt= en by Kipp
Hickman".

It seems to have arrived pretty early on with respect to the
introduction of TCP/IP in BSD: the README alludes to some things
coming up in 4.1c. Clem, you seem to have had a hand in it, and are
credited (along with Peter Moore) for making it work on 4.1a.

So I guess the question is, what was the motivation? Was it just to
have a more pleasing user-to-user communications experience, or was
discussion across the network an explicit goal? There's a note in
talk.c ("Modified to run between hosts by Peter Moore, 8/19/82") = that
suggests this wasn't the original intent. Who thought up the
character-at-a-time display mode?

Thanks for any insights.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.
--000000000000531cfc0629284a31--