[TUHS] RIP Ray Tomlinson

[TUHS] RIP Ray Tomlinson

[Doug McIlroy]

> > But the concept of email goes way back.

> Indeed, it does, but only on the same system.

Very far back. CTSS had a mail utility.

If communication within one system is not
recognized as email, then the exchange that
opened in Boston in 1877 was not a
telephone system.

Doug

[TUHS] RIP Ray Tomlinson

[Clem Cole]

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On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 6:55 PM, Doug McIlroy <doug at cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> Very far back. CTSS had a mail utility.
>
​Yep, as I said, it was pretty standard for timesharing...​ and certainly
IBM, DEC and most of the BUNCH companies had something like it in their
1960s developed systems.



>
> If communication within one system is not
> ​ ​
> recognized as email, then the exchange that
> opened in Boston in 1877 was not a
> ​ ​
> telephone system.

​Amen...

It's all about MetCalfe's Law and the value of the messaging system with
the # of users.   The ARPANet, like the connected exchanges, increase the
number of #s.​

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[TUHS] RIP Ray Tomlinson

[Dan Cross]

On Mar 4, 2018 5:23 PM, "Clem Cole" <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:

As for the 'tosser' that is making claims, I am under the impression he
some how succeeded in getting a copyright for it.  How is unclear, but he
did.   And that's his claim for invention based on work he did which he
admits was in 1978 -- which is 7-10 years after the ArpaNet:  [
http://fortune.com/2016/03/07/who-really-invented-email/.]  To me, a
strange part is that he suing people that claim otherwise.  I really don't
see how he can win those, but I'm not a laywer and I guess copyright gives
him certain rights.   O note that, I have been using messaging system - aka
email, pretty nearly ever day since I first start using computers in the
late 1960s.  So I have a very hard time taking this guy seriously.


Not only is he a tosser, he's also a political crank. He took part in a
"free speech" rally this past summer, which was a thinly disguised venue
for white supremacists.

He's apparently mounting a bid for the US Senate, which is odd in and of
itself, but he's acquired an aged school bus that he's painted and is using
as a prop for his candidacy. It just so happens that I was driving down the
same road as that bus earlier today and was stopped at a traffic light next
to it for a minute or so. "Oh, that's that crazy email guy...." It made me
more than usually annoyed.

        - Dan C.
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[TUHS] RIP Ray Tomlinson

[Clem Cole]

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On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 4:47 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Mar 2018, Paul Winalski wrote:
>
> [ ... ] I don't know if PLATO's email was capable of transmitting messages
>> between computer systems; Tomlinson may have been the first to do that.
>>
>
> That's the claim, yes.

​I just finished Brian Dear's 'Friendly Orange Glow" and Plato was after
Tomlinson.



>
>
> But the concept of email goes way back.
>>
>
> Indeed, it does, but only on the same system.


Some sort of messaging between users was pretty standard on timeshared
systems.   It was in IBM and DEC systems in the late 60s.  But if you
believe the Internet history in Katie Hafner's 'Where Wizards Stay Up Late'
Tomlinson ​extended to the ArpaNet - where is why the @ was important.  The
book is great but the whole chapter on Mail formats is really a fun
read.   ArpaNet
mail had been around a for a few years before any attempt to standardize it
occurred.   This was in part because most of the systems were supplied by
DARPA and thus had some level of commoniality - al buet extensively
modified (TOPS-10 vs TENEX vs ITS).    Brian Reed is quoted in that book
extensively and I remember some of the events described between the
PDP-10's that made up most of the ArpaNet in those days.

I always have gotten a kick out of SMTP being considered 'simple' - but
given then before that email was a hacked on to FTP  and really was a
kludge and after though.

BTW: Paul's comment about DECnet's use of double colon (muchless UUCP's use
of bang) to describe separate 'nodes' is all post ArpaNet and Tomlinson's
original work.    DEC did not even start the work on DECnet, nor IBM on SNA
until long after the ArpaNet succeeded.   In fact, both firms originally
poo-pooed the ideas [again read Katie's book -- a fascinating history].

As for the 'tosser' that is making claims, I am under the impression he
some how succeeded in getting a copyright for it.  How is unclear, but he
did.   And that's his claim for invention based on work he did which he
admits was in 1978 -- which is 7-10 years after the ArpaNet:  [
http://fortune.com/2016/03/07/who-really-invented-email/.]  To me, a
strange part is that he suing people that claim otherwise.  I really don't
see how he can win those, but I'm not a laywer and I guess copyright gives
him certain rights.   O note that, I have been using messaging system - aka
email, pretty nearly ever day since I first start using computers in the
late 1960s.  So I have a very hard time taking this guy seriously.

Clem



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[TUHS] RIP Ray Tomlinson

[Dave Horsfall]

On Sun, 4 Mar 2018, Paul Winalski wrote:

> [ ... ] I don't know if PLATO's email was capable of transmitting 
> messages between computer systems; Tomlinson may have been the first to 
> do that.

That's the claim, yes.

> But the concept of email goes way back.

Indeed, it does, but only on the same system.

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

[TUHS] RIP Ray Tomlinson

[Paul Winalski]

On 3/4/18, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:
>
> In the meantime, some tosser (his name is not important) is claiming that
> he invented email first; I recall that APL\360 had a "mailbox" facility,
> but it certainly didn't use "@".
>
VAX/VMS version 1 (1978) had email, capable of sending messages either
locally or over a DECnet network.  In keeping with standard DECnet
syntax, it used "::" instead of "@".  Len Kawell was the author of VMS
mail.  He got the idea, and copied the UI, from the University of
Illinois PLATO CAI system, which had email capability.  I don't know
if PLATO's email was capable of transmitting messages between computer
systems; Tomlinson may have been the first to do that.

But the concept of email goes way back.

-Paul W.

[TUHS] RIP Ray Tomlinson

[Dave Horsfall]

We lost Ray Tomlinson on this day in 2016; known as the inventor of email, 
he sent the first message between two hosts on the ARPAnet (prior to that 
the users had to be on the same host), and pioneered the use of the "@" 
sign.

In the meantime, some tosser (his name is not important) is claiming that 
he invented email first; I recall that APL\360 had a "mailbox" facility, 
but it certainly didn't use "@".

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."