From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 2294 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2022 15:52:40 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 14 Nov 2022 15:52:40 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738D941DF8; Tue, 15 Nov 2022 01:52:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-f53.google.com (mail-ua1-f53.google.com [209.85.222.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA14140A30 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2022 01:51:56 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-f53.google.com with SMTP id c26so3897269uak.5 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 07:51:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lp4wo2sQms5DTn9YQeir0SE7DSnzIYoTmgEH8m2ukl0=; b=qB7w7l5EXa6RU9xBiZkf+wvE6+ntKgkvs3zI7fNWMEieCtrg8YWFWdL4XXqFeJ9pdp lgpGG1CRq9ImHO4Zcl1n6hOu7hPf8ux88CQccPSqkUwn9xX2gExl8ov3mQAS+gyGuNM+ 451UFK824L7CSq67/iJpzNGfyP9/Blk6dvvaw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=lp4wo2sQms5DTn9YQeir0SE7DSnzIYoTmgEH8m2ukl0=; b=Ix0BnDhu7pEStidlja16llfK5KGZQSIPxSuGfF6zoImr7JffdiI3r5DtA4+/3MH+Ls HuQ84T3fn4nCHQXonX26qfqjz5SePVqunhaDBKVwkVsp+qcJQtyCbG3AcgMPB5jifvHt ES2JfLKnyFewJQ+A+co43Bq8AD8+ST9UqtwsL5UBuPEvCnOZrWcTfd/cjw+UImhi8xh9 KkDEOQIAIYhxwkkxfOWqbkZq68HlJEqIdLZpEliRzPG/2hc8OLcmbaX4bcHMna9kKKXd nsuqglY8fOYTzk3+nRChbhzzGWHE4H8wNkt/t0JmXuNMqnK17DegVbL6GFisGZAAAjda Fmuw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5plLCBvFElwBvpRyZZhdsl1F/+obgtog8aE5oX29NzwA/wBXbaJL wnU+NeZ151czk9Z9Pr2GluwpnqXtOv7Ee7eWyvg5vw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf4aYuO/LEtpBSzVyxbwLf7DpgsVZnqJPoB/OSo3Tjmj/P5Ab4UhgXnDGQtmlGpz7PWu+fPz5SGd17hjQ8RHBOs= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:32c5:0:b0:40a:c9:9ff7 with SMTP id f5-20020ab032c5000000b0040a00c99ff7mr7086033uao.41.1668441055731; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 07:50:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 10:50:29 -0500 Message-ID: To: Douglas McIlroy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000074b80e05ed7034d9" Message-ID-Hash: LHJSA7KYLH2FSIKYHLZ2N7RRPKUGV5VT X-Message-ID-Hash: LHJSA7KYLH2FSIKYHLZ2N7RRPKUGV5VT X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS main list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Book: "You Are Not Expected to Understand This" List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000074b80e05ed7034d9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 9:16 AM Douglas McIlroy < douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote: > "One view of the memory, period." That describes Multics. > Yep -- but not surprising. There were a bunch of folks at DG that had worked on a single-level store system (Project Fountain-Head) that had failed [some of that story is described in Kidder's book]. They had studied Multics extensively, and that system supposedly had taken a great deal from it. I never completely knew what happened other than something went south and it end up getting canceled. I later got to know of a number of the MV10000 folks (who later joined us in the HW team at Stellar). But I believe a bit issue with Fountain Head was both new HW and SW, whereas the MV10000 allowed Nova /Eclipse code to 'just work.' [Kidder makes a big deal out of this in the book]. The lessons and relevance to TUHS I think are a couple of things: 1.) When they did DG-UX, the SW folks had previously developed a kernel with that view, so it's not surprising. 2.) Cost of >>solution development<< is the real end-customer/deployer driver (economics beats architecture). Clem =E1=90=A7 --00000000000074b80e05ed7034d9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On M= on, Nov 14, 2022 at 9:16 AM Douglas McIlroy <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
"One view of the memory, period." That describes Multics.<= /font>
Yep -- but not surp= rising.=C2=A0 =C2=A0There were a bunch of folks at DG that had worked on a = single-level store system (Project Fountain-Head) that had failed [some of = that story is described=C2=A0in Kidder's book]. They had stu= died Multics extensively, and that system supposedly had taken a great deal= from it.=C2=A0 I never completely knew what happened other than something = went=C2=A0south and it end=C2=A0up getting canceled.=C2=A0 I later got to k= now=C2=A0of a number of the MV10000 folks (who later joined us in the HW te= am at Stellar).=C2=A0 =C2=A0But I believe a bit issue with Fountain Head wa= s both new HW and SW, whereas the MV10000 allowed Nova /Eclipse=C2=A0code t= o 'just work.'=C2=A0 [Kidder makes a big deal out of this in the bo= ok].

=
The lessons=C2=A0and relevance to TU= HS I think are a couple of things:
1.) When they did DG-UX, the SW folks had previously developed= a kernel with that view, so it's not surprising.
2.) Cost of >>solution development<= < is the real end-customer/deployer driver (economics=C2=A0beats archite= cture).=C2=A0=C2=A0
Clem=C2=A0=C2=A0
3D""=E1=90=A7
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