From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4DE28A5F for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 17:40:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1209642A13; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 01:39:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2d]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8B03429FD for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 01:39:50 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-dff09ec1e94so707478276.3 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:39:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1718293190; x=1718897990; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=yzzuwSlyaWrDQqOaVYFNOSku+WYCziOrV1ncSe1H0+g=; b=OvWPbi6sPqj1yqweSUiTbgUFej3nQyG7VytDx7TwG+mYWqqeVnA+jjFeT9xJ2R+4Pf 7eD2rkabsXNS/J/Ii3xd9lBwgmkah7UggdU1sVJ3R7ayxyl7zcNuUycjDCNeAW2qQTlQ n73jW0NUr15EB6Q0eCslt4u7oAfTv7ap+Kk7s= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718293190; x=1718897990; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=yzzuwSlyaWrDQqOaVYFNOSku+WYCziOrV1ncSe1H0+g=; b=jXJtVKYTeSsP8f+ZHbX/IBPYqhlr6Xgn0GlrIcPYxE6VXJTh3SEs3h4qa1zDx/O1rA mzU+goJ/pkqfbg41THbLy9WYTS5XzY+QDjmvG4cwcHs6dI+6tOAN85kEyawUzVBrqOUP UCP/FyeysQiCpBXki0FYo9eBRkedNfgMGKJWXOME/n1slLYQ+pjbRSeb9xrCs56uKmgZ IaYuV/E6g2MUKAmtJw8MxMPeDnbxXSeaRwREmKg9qfSVTmTeC55/5JV08QOQZMUyIzio AHOwp0SjtmuZx2swiGZsTmvebTjrKejQuMimwnQrBfiD4wjpKJ1ngLD1G3aLCtY/bauU 9Ljw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyEh3b3CKLfv158/+8kHgRQNRIuGe33CK4lOZuRQjWAEjvoUcP9 xo4oH6MtySa163aH9e7bouQGFeIDIQWQ6/ojgPgphtycWZT1Z57XRRuMPTieDdF1Rojd8rFFQON C4SHjjwK01yg6Zs5j5NepfzX8zroj5SaTrXETb0hLfJP1AKA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFe9KsI3n1XzGP6rN5x40UwJKyK451oOlc8/tKQQaauNBHMVHv9fp25pk71K40aBsrz/Q6zKBD7doFex5lqWmI= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:f4b:0:b0:dfd:ca03:29e4 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-dfe66c5d3a9mr4514528276.29.1718293188155; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:39:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <73819d1a-395a-4b74-a20c-0123fbed56bd@technologists.com> In-Reply-To: <73819d1a-395a-4b74-a20c-0123fbed56bd@technologists.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 11:39:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Charles H Sauer (he/him)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000019bde8061ac74f55" Message-ID-Hash: 23QRZ2TFHKGXJY5XMDHLU5MBR64UID3M X-Message-ID-Hash: 23QRZ2TFHKGXJY5XMDHLU5MBR64UID3M X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] =?utf-8?q?Re=3A_Version_256_of_systemd_boasts_=2742=25_less_Unix_philosophy=27_=E2=80=A2_The_Register?= List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000019bde8061ac74f55 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank Charlie. But I just threw up after I read it. Sadly, UNIX's "prime directive" was to "keep it simple." Or, as someone else describes it, create "small tools that did one job well." On the PDP-11, the lack of address space somewhat enforced this. With the 32-bit vax, we see cat -v and the like. I think "frameworks" are just a modern term for IBM's "access methods" of the 1960s. John Lions observed that the entire documentation set for UNIX V6 could be kept in a 3-ring binder, and, as his book showed, given the size, anyone could understand all of the kernel and the core systems ideas. FWIW, Linux is not the first to fail. Years ago, I pointed out to Dennis that the System V Release 3 bootloader for the 3B was larger than the entire V6 kernel. I have not looked at the size of systemd, but do you want to bet that it fails the same test? But I digress. Someone (Henry Spencer, maybe) once said, "Good Taste is subjective. I have it, and you don't seem to." IMO systemd, was >>not<< a net positive - it falls so many of these tests WRT to good programming and good ideas. Sigh ... Clem =E1=90=A7 =E1=90=A7 On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 10:56=E2=80=AFAM Charles H Sauer (he/him) < sauer@technologists.com> wrote: > https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/13/version_256_systemd/ > > I don't see the boast at > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/releases/tag/v256, but ... > > Charlie > -- > voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer@technologists.com > fax: +1.512.346.5240 Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ > Facebook/Google/LinkedIn/Twitter > : > CharlesHSauer > --00000000000019bde8061ac74f55 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank Charlie.=C2=A0 But I just threw up after I read i= t.=C2=A0

Sadly, UNIX's "prime directive"= was to "keep it simple."=C2=A0 Or, as someone else describes it,= create "small tools that did one job well."=C2=A0On the PDP-11, = the lack of address space somewhat=C2=A0enforced this. With=C2=A0the 32-bit= vax, we see cat -v and the like. I think "frameworks" are just a= modern term for IBM's "access methods" of the 1960s. John Li= ons observed that the entire documentation set for UNIX V6 could be kept in= a 3-ring binder, and, as his book showed, given the size, anyone could und= erstand all of the kernel and the core systems ideas.

= FWIW, Linux is not the first to fail. Years ago, I pointed out to Dennis th= at the System V Release 3 bootloader for the 3B was larger than the entire = V6 kernel. I=C2=A0 have not looked at the size of systemd, but do you want = to bet that it fails the same test?

But I digress. Som= eone (Henry Spencer, maybe) once said, "Good Taste is subjective. I ha= ve it, and you don't seem to."=C2=A0

IMO sys= temd, was >>not<< a net positive - it falls so many of these te= sts WRT to good programming and good ideas.

Sigh ...
Clem
3D""=E1=90=A7
3D""=E1=90=A7
On T= hu, Jun 13, 2024 at 10:56=E2=80=AFAM Charles H Sauer (he/him) <sauer@technologists.c= om> wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/13/= version_256_systemd/

I don't see the boast at
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/releases/tag/= v256, but ...

Charlie
--
voice: +1.512.784.7526=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e-mail: sauer@technologists.com
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