From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25147 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2020 18:05:21 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 26 Jul 2020 18:05:21 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 393C69CAA4; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 04:05:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 095E49CAA1; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 04:04:19 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="gOPhFKsY"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 23E0B9CAA1; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 04:04:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f174.google.com (mail-qk1-f174.google.com [209.85.222.174]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2BF89CAA0 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 04:04:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f174.google.com with SMTP id b79so13295010qkg.9 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 11:04:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=c1+6JsCII7Vxhh2GEzFy4DPmxgDDNpomg3MgPG+qxjM=; b=gOPhFKsYNyN79WcTfDDQZetzI4igbfn1aLr1AuDn8uStN9uOzVtbEUU9PHEOJafWtd VIws9HGyCC1oV/7GjR25sy/M4fE8vjs510fLAYNIMdyHfTcOlsNbK1uH0Sl1MzTgGFtx SvEyDOvw1rSyKiAgDErxH7T4nUT/DzJcofqV8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c1+6JsCII7Vxhh2GEzFy4DPmxgDDNpomg3MgPG+qxjM=; b=TAISqkYLHd1mgoRI0CrHLfVgKOmhtiyYnBxDfx+XnaO02PphgM9Ut+7gwtL10bIP4e kSVVjRM9N7K4IEicUljRUpgBnWlnYcToPvWfQ4gE4W/LJdgX0ssICnwHgem7g9rOzYa+ gCOOC6c/b/59lExzR+5L9d6Gc3fqsVzIW1tcjEgKQC6lMvoitOblyXwLDo3XDNgucgO0 TIApqQV9nA8xR/bF5bsMaxUyy+Gh2CdUDXm7FbExTdCkjJRhkK6DrJl4nFI3cgA3JSoR g14GxnwsWtiE9JOY3wIfXeQZlxqXAtJnW5M7m2QzqnXyJ/JrDbmB/jIwL5YJuM71cppz lRJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530PgrCTFpMkUQDh23kcppqyOkmSwYpPHBMTmr3F6H21Wo+2WSw8 mmScQOD+SSPb/JXmR+JadlN6jOY7dAujb1EWjHYkSg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzORYZlGfjYeEbNOzU+/w09yHpCjDBdXMulDjJurtSw4h+/cwarYCfKVVpXSPtTxz2jRxLC/FvcEqNoA7TApjA= X-Received: by 2002:a37:7a01:: with SMTP id v1mr18910169qkc.146.1595786654872; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 11:04:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202007261531.06QFVqZb027062@freefriends.org> <202007261535.06QFZvLg027250@freefriends.org> <202007261711.06QHB07i032409@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: <202007261711.06QHB07i032409@freefriends.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 14:03:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: Aharon Robbins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b38c6005ab5c0848" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Troff to ps X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000b38c6005ab5c0848 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I wonder if it used troff or ditroff and then what it used for the ps engine (probably Ghostscript) and if ditroff, from where the font metric tables came? I also wonder what it was using for cat4 to ps conversion again like Ghostscript. Like most folks in those days (even most Universities) since Transcript was reasonably inexpensive, most people bought it after they got their first PS based printer, particularly if they had chosen to upgrade to ditroff. For Masscomp (one advantage of being a $10K-$50K machine not a $4K one), I did manage to convince management to buy ditroff and transcript and buy the distribution license for both. It increased our price by less than $100 but we justified it that we really did not want to have to support the original troff and the price to AT&T and Adobe was just cost of doing business and cheaper for us from a cost of maintenance standpoint. We then just bundled ditroff/transcript on every machine. Funny, Sun charged for both, it was fairly cheap - I want to say $500 a node (Larry may remember). But you had to buy it from Sun ala-cart. Many (most) universities did not because they already had the sources for their Vaxen, so then tended to recompile and move it. At Stellar we used Sun's as the 'porting base' - since we had to buy AT&T redistributions licenses anyway, we didn't pay the Sun per node tax. On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 1:11 PM wrote: > There was a different psroff posted to comp.sources.unix volume 20; > that's what I was referring to. > > Clem Cole wrote: > > > psroff was part of the Transcript FWIW. It was the moral equi to the UCB > > command vtroff which did the call to troff -t ... | vcat > > > > BTW: I just peeked, on Disk 4 of Kirk's archives are the source to both > > ditroff and Adobe's transcript in the 'local' directory. > > > > I would suggest starting with transcript, copying to your system and > typing > > 'make' > > That will allow the BSD troff stuff to 'just work' us > pscat/psroff/enscript > > et al. > > > > This is how most sites that did not spring for a ditroff license worked > > with their Apple Laserwriters or later PS printers. > > > > Then if you want to do the same thing with ditroff, that should 'just > > compile' and build and you replace troff with ditroff. > > > > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 11:38 AM wrote: > > > > > Some web searching turns up something called 'psroff' from the late 80s > > > or so that will convert C/A/T to postscript. Google 'psroff source' and > > > you should find something you can use. > > > > > > Arnold > > > > > > arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > > > > > > > Will Senn wrote: > > > > > > > > > My questions: > > > > > 1. Is there a troff to postcript conversion utility present in a > stock > > > > > 2.11 system (or even patch level 4xx system)? > > > > > > > > Troff from that era was designed to drive the C/A/T phototypesetter. > > > > There were tools that converted from C/A/T to postscript but they > > > > were mostly commercial IIRC. > > > > > > > > > 2. Is there a way to build postscript directly on the system? > > > > > > > > Likely not. > > > > > > > > > 3. Is there an alternative modern way to get to ps or pdf output > from > > > > > the nroff/troff that 2.11 has? > > > > > > > > I would recommend tar-ing up the doc and macros, moving them to Linux > > > > or other modern system, and using groff -C to create postscript/pdf. > > > > That really will be the fastest way. > > > > > > > > Arnold > > > > --000000000000b38c6005ab5c0848 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I wonder if it used troff or ditroff=C2=A0and then what= it used for the ps engine (probably Ghostscript) and if ditroff,=C2=A0from= where the font metric tables came?=C2=A0 I also wonder what it was using f= or cat4 to ps conversion again like Ghostscript.=C2=A0 Like most folks in t= hose days (even most Universities) since Transcript was reasonably inexpens= ive, most people bought it after they got their first PS based printer, par= ticularly if they had chosen to upgrade to ditroff.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For Massco= mp (one advantage=C2=A0of being a $10K-$50K machine not a $4K one), I did m= anage to convince management to buy ditroff and transcript and buy the dist= ribution license for both.=C2=A0 It increased our price by less than $100 b= ut we justified it that we really did not want to have to support the=C2=A0= original troff and the price to AT&T and Adobe was just cost of doing b= usiness and cheaper for us from a cost of maintenance standpoint.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0We then just bundled ditroff/transcript on every machine.=C2=A0 Funny, S= un charged for both, it was fairly cheap - I want to say $500 a node (Larry= may remember).=C2=A0 =C2=A0But you had to buy it from Sun=C2=A0ala-cart.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0Many (most) universities=C2=A0did not because they already=C2= =A0had the sources for their Vaxen, so then tended to recompile and move it= .

At Stellar we used Sun's as the 'porting bas= e' - since we had to buy AT&T redistributions licenses anyway, we d= idn't pay the Sun per node tax.=C2=A0

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 1:11= PM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrot= e:
There was a d= ifferent psroff posted to comp.sources.unix volume 20;
that's what I was referring to.

Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.= com> wrote:

> psroff was part of the Transcript FWIW.=C2=A0 It was the moral equi to= the UCB
> command vtroff which did the call to troff -t ... | vcat
>
> BTW: I just peeked,=C2=A0 on Disk 4=C2=A0 of Kirk's archives are t= he source to both
> ditroff and Adobe's transcript in the 'local' directory. >
> I would suggest starting with transcript, copying to your system and t= yping
> 'make'
> That will allow the BSD troff stuff to 'just work' us pscat/ps= roff/enscript
> et al.
>
> This is how most sites that did not spring for a ditroff license worke= d
> with their Apple Laserwriters or later PS printers.
>
> Then if you want to do the same thing with ditroff, that should 'j= ust
> compile' and build and you replace troff with ditroff.
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 11:38 AM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
>
> > Some web searching turns up something called 'psroff' fro= m the late 80s
> > or so that will convert C/A/T to postscript. Google 'psroff s= ource' and
> > you should find something you can use.
> >
> > Arnold
> >
> > arnold@ske= eve.com wrote:
> >
> > > Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My questions:
> > > > 1. Is there a troff to postcript conversion utility pre= sent in a stock
> > > > 2.11 system (or even patch level 4xx system)?
> > >
> > > Troff from that era was designed to drive the C/A/T phototyp= esetter.
> > > There were tools that converted from C/A/T to postscript but= they
> > > were mostly commercial IIRC.
> > >
> > > > 2. Is there a way to build postscript directly on the s= ystem?
> > >
> > > Likely not.
> > >
> > > > 3. Is there an alternative modern way to get to ps or p= df output from
> > > > the nroff/troff that 2.11 has?
> > >
> > > I would recommend tar-ing up the doc and macros, moving them= to Linux
> > > or other modern system, and using groff -C to create postscr= ipt/pdf.
> > > That really will be the fastest way.
> > >
> > > Arnold
> >
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