From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 2274a832 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 18:58:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B34DAA26E2; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 04:58:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C78A26D4; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 04:58:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id AA5B7A26D4; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 04:58:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f53.google.com (mail-wr1-f53.google.com [209.85.221.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1AC993FC6 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 04:58:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f53.google.com with SMTP id l9so13036274wrt.13 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 10:58:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dhCm/OFgnd+ab2N0W7hX7ZO9iJTBHOpJ9ZS8EZaBHqQ=; b=THKC8otmBJV4ngmW7kJZ7xmq7Cpdl6exvuyd0VOqDfjm29fh9up5QhU4zsYJV4FTBR 1DTIsGPTgX9Zl4A1ei8Bpb2j1W9DhdV11d3vaVOlWjTeaPkDZTdAr15uyDOCSaT5YCJs PPzn9kowG3d6750vwakhpG5nWeA0RGnHuBM2k= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dhCm/OFgnd+ab2N0W7hX7ZO9iJTBHOpJ9ZS8EZaBHqQ=; b=AmBkhQjk8YPNtguIjPhRHlqsnszrGoCbne8DtTCQUM2MMbN6+Qseqp+MhYIujgp9Di LLFzdPrj/I+aPzYYfPTi9+T79AbQy6yfoNzd8/CQisN5j8kq7mQ7fAVLR1fv6VVIoreX OgU47su3YRYjRdAUIrlz+qXPe8RJSLlPNUx90to8JDCK3hjLWKEsj9R3uvU/XPFnS6dW 1rXlC8jDj9JyXYDZP4atdSjLJ26wBrSt97Yw7y+BDtMNL9l5uhwehGpbHjiKOSEEyE2G qbs0H6wFhctq0qEIVyhK5e3kCNy4tXjoRmnuoWrhhZN4TNDMlY86BXvmptU4v3hRS5v1 MVXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gIjVidrOQA2YIxl9ak+mZuvdrOWT2lQiXOOMagSYA1EbTf2MLdB Le3KV2mwgyKJH1NRUUJ6krPPewBLLAi1/8dEfMdfXQM8AIc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cLOe9WvyRyFAr75vdbPcgxb0kNp5FVDZDusfxzkA3GTG9UR1qRbbiB9TDaF36KMcNd7vSfxriK6Un/uT0/UH4= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6389:: with SMTP id p9-v6mr10253341wru.215.1542394680564; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 10:58:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201811160003.wAG03mlF139232@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <20181116045016.GK3341@mcvoy.com> <7a632484-cdc7-7c59-7077-7a2c752045da@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <20181116171318.GC30000@mcvoy.com> <201811161739.wAGHdw3O023003@darkstar.fourwinds.com> In-Reply-To: <201811161739.wAGHdw3O023003@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:57:33 -0500 Message-ID: To: Jon Steinhart Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000009f854057accbfec" Subject: Re: [TUHS] man-page style X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000009f854057accbfec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 1:40 PM Jon Steinhart wrote: > Thanks Doug for accidentally starting this thread :-) > +1 > I feel like the GNU project is responsible for destroying the usefulness = of > man pages with their "info" stuff. > Come on Jon - don't you live in emacs all day long ;-) .. sigh.... > I'll make the claim that the loss of the "do one thing and do it well > ..." Actually I blame the VAX and larger address spaces for much of that and no enough real teaching of what I refer to as 'good taste.' When you had to think about keeping it small and decomposable, you did. My own sisters and brothers at UCB started us down this path I fear. Truth is, it is a tough call, learning when 'good enough' is all you need. When its easy to add to things to something you have, you get GNU (or cat -v as Rob pointed out years ago or my least favorite - sendmail - there is >>no<< reason why SMTPD was part of sendmail as an example). I've meantion before on this list, the day I showed Dennis that fact that the System V boot system was larger than the 6th edition kernel, you knew we had a problem. The argument of course is - "well look how well it works and I can do this X" -- sorry not good enough. In the late 70s, Mashy had a wonderful ACM lecture called 'Small is Beautiful' and he had some excellent pictures that demonstrated the problem visually. I love to see him resurect that talk and try to get 'modern' programmers try to understand his message. That said, I admit I do like many things on my moderm MBP and I would not want to go back to running 6th Edition, but I swear there is a happy ground somewhere in between. Clem =E1=90=A7 --00000000000009f854057accbfec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 1:40 PM Jon Steinhart <jon@fourwinds.com> wrote:
Thanks Doug for accidentally starting this thread :-)
+1
=C2=A0
I feel like the GNU project is responsible for destroying the usefulness of man pages with their "info" stuff.=C2=A0=C2=A0
Come on Jon - don't you live in emacs all day long ;= -)=C2=A0 .. sigh....
=C2=A0
=C2=A0I'll make the claim that the loss o= f the "do one thing and do it well=C2=A0..."
Actually I blame the VAX and larger address spaces for much of = that and no enough real teaching of what I refer to as 'good taste.'= ;=C2=A0 =C2=A0When you had to think about keeping it small and decomposable= , you did.=C2=A0 =C2=A0My own sisters and brothers at UCB started us down t= his path I fear.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Truth is, it is a tough call, learning when 'good enough' is all y= ou need.=C2=A0 =C2=A0When its easy to add to things to something you have, = you get GNU (or cat -v as Rob pointed out years ago or my least favorite - = sendmail - there is >>no<< reason why SMTPD was part of sendmai= l as an example).=C2=A0

I= 9;ve meantion before on this list, the day I showed Dennis that fact that t= he System V boot system was larger than the 6th edition kernel, you knew we= had a problem.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The argument of course is - "wel= l look how well it works and I can do this X" -- sorry not = good enough.

In the late 70s= , Mashy had a wonderful ACM lecture called 'Small is Beautiful' and= he had some excellent pictures that demonstrated the problem visually.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0I love to see him resurect that talk and try to get 'modern&#= 39; programmers try to understand his message.

That said, I admit I do like many things on my moderm MB= P and I would not want to go back to running 6th Edition, but I swear there= is a happy ground somewhere in between.

Clem=C2=A0 =C2=A0
3D""=E1=90=A7<= /div> --00000000000009f854057accbfec--