From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 30565 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2020 21:08:47 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 Aug 2020 21:08:47 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C5A739CA9F; Sat, 8 Aug 2020 07:08:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ABF59C1CE; Sat, 8 Aug 2020 07:08:22 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="N5M5vaQC"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id F3B7B9C1D7; Sat, 8 Aug 2020 07:08:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f169.google.com (mail-qt1-f169.google.com [209.85.160.169]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5405C9C1C7 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2020 07:08:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f169.google.com with SMTP id h21so2341686qtp.11 for ; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 14:08:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=OEza9p4xNInMYVj45osSY7Q4f8eKi6NE0U8Ox7KVabY=; b=N5M5vaQCJ9rSJ6L9tLS3i1g+AmS5pnYXhi14ji9VeRq92V5AF8QJf4uWnAx0HnECNo nwG2/6QGy0ynUOBYrF6H+9F7+IanpLAZW6lFx4FGJv+AC0sLIZihE2/9QTh6mNa0Tl0V OHOsaq+IL/bTDv4ASJj0OGQnE3Qzu8xMhDvx8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OEza9p4xNInMYVj45osSY7Q4f8eKi6NE0U8Ox7KVabY=; b=qmQ10kT0TtMXgg02chbE+tMAS2A4rZI6KIeYNF2yx2TaKn3Vw5gx3/w8TzvFuet/FA LwZih7hL+dSX8fMZ8swUIgztCj6YPohzttTRxKE0QH1r1S9pquWUIc7ZUCE5Pgq5oPff YYr2Tatccv4ept5u0wdicMl4/GVse51CaCB7k+hILbx6RMkjPoBTCH9WA7skmC5Fx59l coMyRXmDI1wkWCqnjnBI+fL3b3aRt573Q7zuSMoCCkl97IIrGmqhEjnpr3nEs1N4NA0B 3jezcH4Ooxuafg7c3ruWhW64xNs/DfS07wlelKbrfhjkcK0nHTw2Zej572e9V6WP01se dNcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53344Yyt0v0zpuhJDvRfqxN5ZYBLRsWYEnB4Sn5+IBaMTMBQg7fI 5eXK6YVUX2ty/MpB2VTXQ1ZMt21NcG5kDuJ8rfUE4Ci+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxIv6Fnl2BOFjhX0zWVDCdihDiVGUXj/HqZ39ylnPoInwWUeREKevaSBWHeiqdL/rfkE98H4iaqeAYiYBpzyR8= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:382f:: with SMTP id q44mr16340220qtb.33.1596834498287; Fri, 07 Aug 2020 14:08:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 17:07:52 -0400 Message-ID: To: Warner Losh Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000092f1705ac50012f" Subject: Re: [TUHS] [COFF] Unix and SW Releases (was V7 et al from Will) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers , TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000092f1705ac50012f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:23 PM Warner Losh wrote: > 2.8BSD was supposed to be the last PDP-11 release: A final wrapup of > everything, according to the release notes. > Yeah, that sounds right. Bostic had moved into CSRG and I think he was hacking on it less and less. Also Ultrix/PDP-11 was out by then and Fred Cantor had sort of displaced Keith as the PDP-11/UNIX wizard. > However, there were a lot of PDP-11s in specialized niches that weren't > easily replaced by more modern hardware, so 2.9, 2.10 and 2.11 happened as > well. > You tell me from looking at the sources, do you know if there was any back population to these releases from DEC? The Ultrix team (aps et al) had fed CRSG drivers and some stuff for the Vax. Fred had a goal (took some pride) in trying to make the PDP-11/Ultrix release very much plug and play, but I had personally lost interest in the PDP-11 by then so I was not watching it directly, only socially knowing many of the players. > The formality of the release seemed to diminish a bit at each step (though > that may just be my perceptions). > Well, the formality of anything before that was happenstance. Because CSRG was getting more formal, I think Keith and company were trying to parrot the same schemes. As I said, 4.1 and before like, Research was sort of the state of the world when Joy made the tape. To be fair, disk space was expensive. So keeping a big hunk of space dedicated to the 'release bits' was not really reasonable much less imaginable. It was only with CRSG that for the Vax there was 'enough' hardware to have test machines and dedicated distribution. > By the time we arrive at 2.11BSD, the tapes were produced by USENIX where > you had to send proof of license to get the tape... These releases were > driven by Seismo, and the USGS and/or military deployments from everything > I've read... > That sounds right. By the time of later 2.X versions UCB folks were much less involved and I think you might be that USENIX took over some distribution work (I was not on the board then, Steve might have been). Clem --000000000000092f1705ac50012f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:23 = PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>= wrote:
2.8BSD was supposed to be the last PDP-11 release= : A final wrapup of everything, according to the release notes.
Yeah, that sounds right.=C2=A0 Bostic had moved into = CSRG and I think he was hacking on it less and less.=C2=A0 Also Ultrix/PDP-= 11 was out by then and Fred Cantor had sort of displaced Keith as the PDP-1= 1/UNIX wizard.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

=C2=A0
Howeve= r, there were a lot of PDP-11s in specialized niches that weren't easil= y replaced by more modern hardware, so 2.9, 2.10 and 2.11 happened as well.=
You tell me from looking at the sources, = do you know if there was any back population to these releases from DEC?=C2= =A0 The Ultrix team (aps et al) had fed CRSG drivers and some stuff for the= Vax.=C2=A0 Fred had a goal (took=C2=A0some pride) in trying to make the PD= P-11/Ultrix release very much plug and play, but I had personally lost inte= rest in the PDP-11 by then so=C2=A0I was not watching it directly, only soc= ially knowing many of the players.


=C2= =A0
The formality of the release seemed to diminish a bit at = each step (though that may just be my perceptions).
Well, the formality of anything before that was happenstance.=C2= =A0 Because CSRG was getting more formal, I think Keith and company were tr= ying to parrot=C2=A0the same schemes.=C2=A0 As I said, 4.1 and before like,= Research was sort of the state of the world when Joy made the tape.
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ">
To be fair, disk space was expensive.=C2=A0 So keeping a big= hunk of space dedicated to the 'release bits' was not really reaso= nable much less=C2=A0 imaginable.=C2=A0 It was only with CRSG that for the = Vax there was 'enough' hardware to have test machines and dedicated= distribution.

=C2=A0
By the time we arr= ive at 2.11BSD, the tapes were produced by USENIX where you had to send pro= of of license to get the tape... These releases were driven by Seismo, and = the USGS and/or military deployments from everything I've read...
=
That sounds right.=C2=A0 =C2=A0By the time of l= ater 2.X versions UCB folks were much less involved and I think you might b= e that USENIX took over some distribution work (I was not on the board then= , Steve might have been).=C2=A0

Clem
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