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* [TUHS] ACM opens up much of its archives
@ 2022-05-24 23:29 arnold
  2022-05-25 15:53 ` [TUHS] " Clem Cole
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2022-05-24 23:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

https://associationsnow.com/2022/05/the-way-things-were-why-open-access-to-the-a
cm-digital-library-matters/


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-24 23:29 [TUHS] ACM opens up much of its archives arnold
@ 2022-05-25 15:53 ` Clem Cole
  2022-05-25 16:00   ` Richard Salz
                     ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2022-05-25 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: arnold; +Cc: tuhs

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Indeed -- a small step in the right direction by ACM, but don't be too
excited.   If you go to the ACM DL website, sadly, most of the library is
still behind the paywall (or not scanned).  I do still have access
from Intel, but when I retire, I think I will lose that access - even
though I'm a long-time ACM (and IEEE) member.  In fact, the thing about ACM
and IEEE that frosts my cookies the most is that I already paid for these
journals.   [My wife would love it if I got rid of them from the basement,
but if I do, I lose that investment].

FWIW: the single item that I am the proudest of when I was USENIX President
was opening access to its entire library to everyone - members or
otherwise.   This meant taking a leap of faith by the org that people would
stay members - as it does cost the USENIX money to be there for us all (so
I highly encourage people on this list to consider it to support the work
they continue to do -- https://www.usenix.org/membership).

Clem
ᐧ

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 7:29 PM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:

>
> https://associationsnow.com/2022/05/the-way-things-were-why-open-access-to-the-a
> cm-digital-library-matters/
> <https://associationsnow.com/2022/05/the-way-things-were-why-open-access-to-the-acm-digital-library-matters/>
>
>

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* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-25 15:53 ` [TUHS] " Clem Cole
@ 2022-05-25 16:00   ` Richard Salz
  2022-05-25 16:01     ` Clem Cole
  2022-05-26  1:54   ` Larry McVoy
  2022-05-26 17:09   ` Henry Mensch
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Richard Salz @ 2022-05-25 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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>
> FWIW: the single item that I am the proudest of when I was USENIX
> President was opening access to its entire library to everyone - members or
> otherwise.
>

Thank you for doing that!

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* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-25 16:00   ` Richard Salz
@ 2022-05-25 16:01     ` Clem Cole
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2022-05-25 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Salz; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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My pleasure!
ᐧ

On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 12:00 PM Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote:

> FWIW: the single item that I am the proudest of when I was USENIX
>> President was opening access to its entire library to everyone - members or
>> otherwise.
>>
>
> Thank you for doing that!
>

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* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-25 15:53 ` [TUHS] " Clem Cole
  2022-05-25 16:00   ` Richard Salz
@ 2022-05-26  1:54   ` Larry McVoy
  2022-05-26 17:09   ` Henry Mensch
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Larry McVoy @ 2022-05-26  1:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: tuhs

I'll admit to being butt hurt about all of these journal places being behind
a paywall.  90% or 99.9% of that work was funded by our tax dollars, right?
Then the journal organization says you have to pay more.

It pisses me off.  If you are doing research you want to share that to help
the world.  Then you publish and they hide your work behind a paywall.

On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 11:53:15AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote:
> Indeed -- a small step in the right direction by ACM, but don't be too
> excited.   If you go to the ACM DL website, sadly, most of the library is
> still behind the paywall (or not scanned).  I do still have access
> from Intel, but when I retire, I think I will lose that access - even
> though I'm a long-time ACM (and IEEE) member.  In fact, the thing about ACM
> and IEEE that frosts my cookies the most is that I already paid for these
> journals.   [My wife would love it if I got rid of them from the basement,
> but if I do, I lose that investment].
> 
> FWIW: the single item that I am the proudest of when I was USENIX President
> was opening access to its entire library to everyone - members or
> otherwise.   This meant taking a leap of faith by the org that people would
> stay members - as it does cost the USENIX money to be there for us all (so
> I highly encourage people on this list to consider it to support the work
> they continue to do -- https://www.usenix.org/membership).
> 
> Clem
> ???
> 
> On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 7:29 PM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > https://associationsnow.com/2022/05/the-way-things-were-why-open-access-to-the-a
> > cm-digital-library-matters/
> > <https://associationsnow.com/2022/05/the-way-things-were-why-open-access-to-the-acm-digital-library-matters/>
> >
> >

-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-25 15:53 ` [TUHS] " Clem Cole
  2022-05-25 16:00   ` Richard Salz
  2022-05-26  1:54   ` Larry McVoy
@ 2022-05-26 17:09   ` Henry Mensch
  2022-05-26 17:13     ` Dan Cross
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Henry Mensch @ 2022-05-26 17:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'Clem Cole', arnold; +Cc: tuhs

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Unsure of your location, but it is likely that you can get your local public (!) library to “ILL” (interlibrary loan) items … including journal items … for you. It’s not instant access, but if you’re retired then this may be good enough.

 

> even though I'm a long-time ACM (and IEEE) member.  

 

If you’re a *current* member of these societies then you should have good access to journal content. 

 

>FWIW: the single item that I am the proudest of when I was USENIX President was opening access to its entire library to everyone - members or otherwise.   

 

I have used this in the past, so thank you for being way ahead of your time.

 

*	Henry Mensch


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* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-26 17:09   ` Henry Mensch
@ 2022-05-26 17:13     ` Dan Cross
  2022-05-26 19:49       ` Stephen Kitt
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2022-05-26 17:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Henry Mensch; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 1:09 PM Henry Mensch <henry@henare.com> wrote:

> Unsure of your location, but it is likely that you can get your local
> public (!) library to “ILL” (interlibrary loan) items … including journal
> items … for you. It’s not instant access, but if you’re retired then this
> may be good enough.
>
>
>
> *>* even though I'm a long-time ACM (and IEEE) member.
>
>
>
> If you’re a **current** member of these societies then you should have
> good access to journal content.
>

I believe this is true for ACM, but for IEEE not so much. You have to pay
for a digital library membership _in addition to_ your standard membership.
It's very annoying; IEEE is the one that really grinds my gears generally.


> >FWIW: the single item that I am the proudest of when I was USENIX
> President was opening access to its entire library to everyone - members or
> otherwise.
>
>
>
> I have used this in the past, so thank you for being way ahead of your
> time.
>

+1. You have to ask for some of the older stuff explicitly (it hasn't been
scanned yet or similar) but it's nice to be able to get access to USENIX
materials.

        - Dan C.

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* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-26 17:13     ` Dan Cross
@ 2022-05-26 19:49       ` Stephen Kitt
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Kitt @ 2022-05-26 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

On Thu, 26 May 2022 13:13:12 -0400, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 1:09 PM Henry Mensch <henry@henare.com> wrote:
> > If you’re a **current** member of these societies then you should have
> > good access to journal content.
> 
> I believe this is true for ACM, but for IEEE not so much. You have to pay
> for a digital library membership _in addition to_ your standard membership.
> It's very annoying; IEEE is the one that really grinds my gears generally.

The ACM also has an optional DL membership (which costs as much as
professional membership on its own).

Both ACM DL and IEEE Xplore are also accessible through institutional
sign-ins using alumni accounts from a number of academic institutions, so
it’s worth giving that a shot too (for those with alumni accounts…). There’s
no guarantee of course; I have access to IEEE Xplore in this manner, but not
ACM DL (but I’m a member of the ACM, with the DL option).

Regards,

Stephen

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-26 20:53 ` Clem Cole
@ 2022-05-26 21:13   ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Charles H Sauer (he/him) @ 2022-05-26 21:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

It is disappointing that the SOSP versions are not available, but I 
suspect the real problem here is publication protocol at the time. It 
was often the case that when conference papers were headed for CACM the 
conferences only published the abstracts in the proceedings.

I long abandoned my paper archives that might have included these, so I 
don't know for sure whether the paper proceedings would have had the 
full papers or not.

However, for both the UNIX & Popek/Goldberg papers, the full CACM 
versions do seem to be freely available, with the expected annotation 
"This is a revised version of a paper presented at the Fourth
ACM Symposium on Operating Systems Principles, IBM Thomas
J. Watson Research Center, Yorktown Heights, New York, October
15-17, 1973."

https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/361011.361061
https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/361011.361073

On 5/26/2022 3:53 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
> Awe are a little drifting from core UNIX but FWIW:  With the noise made 
> about the ACM DL is more freely available and the 'advertisement' they 
> sent saying the earliest UNIX paper was now there for anyone to examine 
> (from the 1973 SOSP), I just tried to download both without signing in 
> and with -- I got the same result.   You get the abstract - not the 
> paper which was a tad disappointing.  FWIW: from the SOSP was Jerry 
> Popek's famous paper on requirements for VM -- same result.
> 
> I understand the problem, (USENIX also has the same one) but it seems 
> like if they are going to scan things, scan all of it, not just the 
> abstract.
> ᐧ
> 
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:40 PM Douglas McIlroy 
> <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu <mailto:douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu>> 
> wrote:
> 
>      >> If you’re a *current* member of these societies then you should
>     have good access to journal content.
> 
>      >I believe this is true for ACM, but for IEEE not so much. You have
>     to pay for a digital library membership _in addition to_ your
>     standard membership
> 
>     ACM is the same.  At $99/year membership is a bargain by ordinary
>     professional society standards. But they charge an additional $99 for
>     access to 21st-century Digital Library.content.
> 
>     Doug
> 

-- 
voice: +1.512.784.7526       e-mail: sauer@technologists.com
fax: +1.512.346.5240         Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/
Facebook/Google/Twitter: CharlesHSauer

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-26 20:39 [TUHS] " Douglas McIlroy
  2022-05-26 20:43 ` [TUHS] " Dan Cross
@ 2022-05-26 20:53 ` Clem Cole
  2022-05-26 21:13   ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2022-05-26 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Douglas McIlroy; +Cc: TUHS main list

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Awe are a little drifting from core UNIX but FWIW:  With the noise made
about the ACM DL is more freely available and the 'advertisement' they sent
saying the earliest UNIX paper was now there for anyone to examine (from
the 1973 SOSP), I just tried to download both without signing in and with
-- I got the same result.   You get the abstract - not the paper which was
a tad disappointing.  FWIW: from the SOSP was Jerry Popek's famous paper on
requirements for VM -- same result.

I understand the problem, (USENIX also has the same one) but it seems like
if they are going to scan things, scan all of it, not just the abstract.
ᐧ

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:40 PM Douglas McIlroy <
douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> >> If you’re a *current* member of these societies then you should have
> good access to journal content.
>
> >I believe this is true for ACM, but for IEEE not so much. You have to pay
> for a digital library membership _in addition to_ your standard membership
>
> ACM is the same.  At $99/year membership is a bargain by ordinary
> professional society standards. But they charge an additional $99 for
> access to 21st-century Digital Library.content.
>
> Doug
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: ACM opens up much of its archives
  2022-05-26 20:39 [TUHS] " Douglas McIlroy
@ 2022-05-26 20:43 ` Dan Cross
  2022-05-26 20:53 ` Clem Cole
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2022-05-26 20:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Douglas McIlroy; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 4:40 PM Douglas McIlroy <
douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> >> If you’re a *current* member of these societies then you should have
> good access to journal content.
>
> >I believe this is true for ACM, but for IEEE not so much. You have to pay
> for a digital library membership _in addition to_ your standard membership
>
> ACM is the same.  At $99/year membership is a bargain by ordinary
> professional society standards. But they charge an additional $99 for
> access to 21st-century Digital Library.content.
>

Sigh. I stand corrected. Thanks, Doug.

        - Dan C.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-05-26 21:13 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-05-24 23:29 [TUHS] ACM opens up much of its archives arnold
2022-05-25 15:53 ` [TUHS] " Clem Cole
2022-05-25 16:00   ` Richard Salz
2022-05-25 16:01     ` Clem Cole
2022-05-26  1:54   ` Larry McVoy
2022-05-26 17:09   ` Henry Mensch
2022-05-26 17:13     ` Dan Cross
2022-05-26 19:49       ` Stephen Kitt
2022-05-26 20:39 [TUHS] " Douglas McIlroy
2022-05-26 20:43 ` [TUHS] " Dan Cross
2022-05-26 20:53 ` Clem Cole
2022-05-26 21:13   ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)

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