From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id f06081b0 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 18:00:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id ED55CA2216; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 04:00:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F08A1F04; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 04:00:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 3BA00A1F04; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 03:59:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f48.google.com (mail-wr1-f48.google.com [209.85.221.48]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C065A1F01 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 03:59:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f48.google.com with SMTP id j10so20628392wru.4 for ; Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:59:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2vQ10T1Z10iz0/60+R7PXFelUXLixjQqDWx59OS6edM=; b=UaZotExeRvbct+jL/CF783WTCTcgyNKLmCfULggWR6Z4S6EHTpZvh3TURGKe3IU5RH oHJNFH6aQLETvvfva9gq1KWMIUc/+UOzNu5K1xsR5zLjmV+Wq+YCFzkw515Mg+OE+TkF LWYVEvIckn90PHjOLu2U57PELrIqXrgvoy4ps= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2vQ10T1Z10iz0/60+R7PXFelUXLixjQqDWx59OS6edM=; b=bWGdIqvQq4ahudLACoId8A1Hf/Y2agV9wl72qQXy2T1P11vClla2L7C9aW4972tqSo AldWaOxMOfg1orLtexoI7tJ1cmGLVXRxuwqZAqfc5IAZWbF2jbyd1wqMQxFi7LFbdleA E6FH4POLsCtMpTDXbdiquvqmMp5xp/zZoFUXj3QfXkMGBOA1PTZRrLIYjqeJ5wrt89u5 UUBSG6I6yhoH9Y5fZ5R9hhfkIndRBtJAvRYkPK/uBUVbG75j/QzQdN/iTQhDNse9dUKX +stdAg2L8kHww1zGz0WfJa3wvYOwgmt5A/yKbSCfApJOrUWVVWIIc4WbkZenaSiLyctS aNWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbcO926ll60KWKrbDkejAKfixFllroRzbonylbxc8hksstLvu2A vbW6/fZ+gYUh/eX10sFrxyA7QULHmYgi4fpmO6NzBbEK X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/UkOpQG3TfNaFhFxNhYcWk2eCn3t+kT5Bbi6J031LPytJ6farerD1UcHfl+W6+7C+QY6tZx6WCy6MpV9CQxgbM= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:63c3:: with SMTP id c3mr22349174wrw.215.1544032747069; Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:59:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 12:58:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: Paul Winalski Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000693be0057c4a23f8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] DEC compilers (was Happy birthday, John Backus!) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000693be0057c4a23f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll never forget Bill Munson's warnings at the 1980 USENIX conference. Munson ran 'TIG' - Telephone Industries Group, in Merrimack, NH - who job at DEC was helping their largest customer: AT&T. Us university types were screaming at Bill and team "When is DEC going to 'support' UNIX?" Bill got up an cautioned, 'Be careful what you wish/ask us to do. If we do support Unix, we will have to put Fortran, Cobol, and PL/1 on it -- which I don't think you really want.' I'm not sure which languages did eventually get supported and on which versions of Ultrix. But once Paul's lk was released (and you can still find it in /bin on the base Ultrix distributions), you did indeed see a number of the languages move to Ultrix. I think for the Vax it was just VAX/11C, Fortran and Pascal. I think Ultrix11 may have gotten Fortran, but as I said; I don't remember. I do remember the TIG folks talking about a PL/1 project and a proposal for Cobol and RP/G because some of the Wall Street types wanted them, but I don't remember any of those getting released (that said, I was also not watching things Vaxen by that time). By the time I came back to Ultrix to do the MIPS 4000 stuff a few years later, tech languages offerings were different and the GEM compilers had come on the scene. Clem =E1=90=A7 On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 11:48 AM Paul Winalski wrote: > Another curious compiler at DEC was VAX Ultrix Fortran. DEC had > gotten a lot of push-back from the research community, who wanted to > use VAX and Ultrix but considered the f77 compiler inadequate and > wanted to use VAX Fortran, which only ran on VAX/VMS. There was a > rush project to port VAX Fortran to Ultrix. It was decided that the > quickest way to get a quality compiler to market was to have the VAX > Fortran compiler continue to emit VMS-format object files, and to > modify the VAX/VMS linker to accept a.out object files and to emit > a.out images. Four of us worked on the linker port. Two of us from > the VAX/VMS languages team did the linker mods and two engineers from > the Ultrix group wrote code to translate VMS debug information to Unix > stabs. The resulting linker was called lk. The VAX Fortran RTL was > also ported, and since we had a way to produce Unix executables from > VMS object files, it meant we didn't have to rewrite the RTL, which > was mainly in BLISS but also had modules in Fortran, VAX assembler, > and Pascal. > > -Paul W. > --000000000000693be0057c4a23f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll never forget Bill Munson's warnings at the= 1980 USENIX conference.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Munson ran 'TIG' - Telephone I= ndustries Group, in Merrimack, NH - who job at DEC was helping their larges= t customer: AT&T.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Us university types were screaming at Bi= ll and team "When is DEC going to 'support' UNIX?" Bill g= ot up an cautioned, 'Be careful what you wish/ask us to do.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0If we do support Unix, we will have to put Fortran, Cobol, and PL/1 on i= t -- which I don't think you really want.'

I&#= 39;m not sure which languages did eventually get supported and on which ver= sions of Ultrix.=C2=A0 But once Paul's=C2=A0lk was released (and you ca= n still find it in /bin on the base Ultrix distributions), you did indeed s= ee a number of the languages move to Ultrix.=C2=A0 I think for the Vax it w= as just VAX/11C, Fortran and Pascal.=C2=A0 I think Ultrix11 may have gotten= Fortran, but as I said; I don't remember.=C2=A0 I do remember the TIG = folks talking about a PL/1 project and a proposal for Cobol and RP/G becaus= e some of the Wall Street types wanted them, but I don't remember any o= f those getting released (that said, I was also not watching things Vaxen b= y that time).=C2=A0 =C2=A0By the time I came back to Ultrix to do the MIPS = 4000 stuff a few years later, tech languages offerings were different and t= he GEM compilers had come on the scene.

Clem=C2=A0
3D==E1=90=A7

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 11:48 AM Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:
Another curious compiler at DEC was VAX Ultrix = Fortran.=C2=A0 DEC had
gotten a lot of push-back from the research community, who wanted to
use VAX and Ultrix but considered the f77 compiler inadequate and
wanted to use VAX Fortran, which only ran on VAX/VMS.=C2=A0 There was a
rush project to port VAX Fortran to Ultrix.=C2=A0 It was decided that the quickest way to get a quality compiler to market was to have the VAX
Fortran compiler continue to emit VMS-format object files, and to
modify the VAX/VMS linker to accept a.out object files and to emit
a.out images.=C2=A0 Four of us worked on the linker port.=C2=A0 Two of us f= rom
the VAX/VMS languages team did the linker mods and two engineers from
the Ultrix group wrote code to translate VMS debug information to Unix
stabs.=C2=A0 The resulting linker was called lk.=C2=A0 The VAX Fortran RTL = was
also ported, and since we had a way to produce Unix executables from
VMS object files, it meant we didn't have to rewrite the RTL, which
was mainly in BLISS but also had modules in Fortran, VAX assembler,
and Pascal.

-Paul W.
--000000000000693be0057c4a23f8--