From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 2d58f8cc for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:49:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1750A9D539; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 01:48:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20A89D51A; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 01:48:44 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="h83yctA2"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 40F079D51A; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 01:48:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f171.google.com (mail-qt1-f171.google.com [209.85.160.171]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABE1F9D518 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 01:48:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f171.google.com with SMTP id v25so14809232qto.7 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 07:48:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SFhRnk801MmHfcu8o91GKIHBz/kXT6woKGg4qbcavuM=; b=h83yctA2PtZRS5wO2r/C9tgMGFspMkJ8Dhk85JHhS+QAn147g2yj35pgb0sIGp35hA GXfCtaDFRLzLzSJS0kWXzaEIADJfT5TIOuUxcAeGfwNFC/CTiNsLtaPDVwNqp5pXYxEB Tfh85kHYywKo5Kr3BbAuq6GOzHu9yUOExnZ+A= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SFhRnk801MmHfcu8o91GKIHBz/kXT6woKGg4qbcavuM=; b=PdEnfh8b7c6kTp+EvOnDQE5PKG9SKDKAX5aA1fsFvcRAsucRXUTAMbUmyULuLDPQXZ 0/ydf7XxCOt9BbuKpfAu5VvgbfHQDe9SqbjzmtFUHba4B/s2ASfdVUOgvb6D0pVW12dL Yl9u0jPyQ9tf4GLbFFUvi43gZvpFVMWLf0eGYa4RuK/tg0Y5afiYIF9PswL4vGFTWqtt PVGw3pxuRYdU3uqZQSmH0zRikGnrP0XrwKc4VyfFNoZiqX6Fk8ykqgXv7qxBhiQfIFcR NgcAwHq7zceDZExzOJJwPqTfMJw529iSuSA183h38fSWSa7oGk5sVxDz2eA4QYfZZ6Yk NIHg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV799lyBYeXkTV4wCr6DIrvRruXfaAqQlqniNwYzjj8rekKgGUm qsPv5QNe0Sdz0ewIWwSywh5j+aTZs2MW+v+qHV4eA7M6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzPLAoJZU08HXIT39c2Eui2n2gjzdIlnTa9kK6jZ1cuTMQVcQhkZIEiPkfRkkn7IW33tof4piJa2Y/H2lwk1aQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:550a:: with SMTP id j10mr18179168qtq.354.1582040921681; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 07:48:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202002171520.01HFKqKi026749@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <4d252035b323b7583c5760c952d1982c@firemail.de> <202002171839.01HId8FT1358073@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <202002180017.01I0HI0I1415945@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <202002181528.01IFSogM030831@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: <202002181528.01IFSogM030831@freefriends.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 10:48:28 -0500 Message-ID: To: arnold@skeeve.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000283b8b059edb9b63" Subject: Re: [TUHS] man Macro Package and pdfmark X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000283b8b059edb9b63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The term OSS to mean free as in beer is just not correct. The sources were always free a as in available to be read but just like today they are licensed. Ad for Universities. The point is if you had a vax you had troff as a miniimun an $50 for ditroff was not a hardship. If you had a binary workstation from DEC or Sun you got troff on the system and if you got a masscomp you got ditroff. The point is people had access to a working binary without spending any we real extra money - which was Jons point. The ecosystem under Unix was fine until the real a FOSS world which was when groff appears. On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 10:28 AM wrote: > Clem Cole wrote: > > > ditroff was always >>open source<< and any licensee could get it and see > > it. The problem you are suggesting is that it was not >>free<< i.e. > FOSS. > > I don't like your use of "open source"; it is way out of skew with > how it's used today. > > > AT&T licensed it with a small set of fees. IIRC $1K for the first CPU, > an > > $50 for each and redistribution license was $10K and $5/system. > > That was very painful for universities and/or small businesses. Sure > Sun and Masscomp could afford that. Your average computing center / > computer science department / startup would have to think twice or thrice. > > Per CPU licensing was particularly painful if you had a bunch > of workstations. > > Arnold > -- Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual --000000000000283b8b059edb9b63 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The term OSS to mean free as in beer is just not cor= rect. =C2=A0 The sources were always free a as in available to be read but = just like today they are licensed. =C2=A0

=
Ad for Universities. The point is if you had a vax = you had troff as a miniimun an $50 for ditroff was not a hardship.

If you had a binary workstation = from DEC or Sun you got troff on the system and if you got a masscomp you g= ot ditroff.

The point is= people had access to a working binary without spending any we real extra m= oney - which was Jons point.

The ecosystem under Unix was fine until the real a FOSS world which wa= s when groff appears.

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 10:28 AM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> ditroff was always >>open source<< and any licensee could = get it and see
> it.=C2=A0 The problem you are suggesting is that it was not >>fr= ee<< i.e. FOSS.

I don't like your use of "open source"; it is way out of skew= with
how it's used today.

> AT&T licensed it with a small set of fees.=C2=A0 =C2=A0IIRC $1K fo= r the first CPU, an
> $50 for each and redistribution license was $10K and $5/system.

That was very painful for universities and/or small businesses. Sure
Sun and Masscomp could afford that. Your average computing center /
computer science department / startup would have to think twice or thrice.<= br>
Per CPU licensing was particularly painful if you had a bunch
of workstations.

Arnold
--
Sent from a handheld expect more typos t= han usual
--000000000000283b8b059edb9b63--