From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 27457 invoked from network); 2 May 2022 17:43:45 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 May 2022 17:43:45 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2FC439D47F; Tue, 3 May 2022 03:43:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 327B09D431; Tue, 3 May 2022 03:42:58 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="reV7WU40"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BCE559D431; Tue, 3 May 2022 03:42:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f170.google.com (mail-qk1-f170.google.com [209.85.222.170]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C94D9CE23 for ; Tue, 3 May 2022 03:42:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f170.google.com with SMTP id z126so11914644qkb.2 for ; Mon, 02 May 2022 10:42:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qO8IrYrxe57JQNoNCLjjDVjq6uXc84ItzWnqUNRg7KA=; b=reV7WU40JIy+YguKW+eSKX452YDa5X1iEH/ciu9uLpRw8btLi6noBM9liXehPA8TQa Y+zWwYUx/fvbRuY4lI67qH6CAz2BaRdvMP5BWFoaGQ4vmzdlB6gK+Ja9DkTYkEgBHRwl NRY/6sTY0OE87GGTuj5IS0399nUARul5kLlG8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qO8IrYrxe57JQNoNCLjjDVjq6uXc84ItzWnqUNRg7KA=; b=r5Is7p9ZkyHtzpGiQxxGdikZ24P1t3uVV8OV8aQPR8iYFFxIWO/lAQuKYbGIFwI0Cg dQwtNAE5EHF0e41u3tDpUdBUG2MF5fJV7Jo7x7sBRebXSxV4Yye2PCIwrV9oOMjskKly xVBGm0j9FSIuCVjTRF47B+UZodTxmhwnPprjSRQqbLIobJXMIhfR+NU8owuUiR341jJ3 dWjKgX+pOxL+wphTR9wuLmTngFeRBz69s0ioPx2042wyZcw6Ymvy8kg0A2orEIevBXV9 pI7J/QHRJ5cXUxKU+eKN5mzjMjZHELRoT7M0L2uReKE1lN/e+mV4S0CAoEDsMU0UmoNC vFGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533tr0Pjf/4TFyV+H7ZHeKsMqUBocHcRm9+WI4fgHEhrVeqqd5hr Wge7qrw/oTxD4ZNmovpcN87cofLtedOJ/Lot6MIBPSz0gL+CkCGJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxm4DJ7SuTbyG6dVWrqwgsB+V4EsVCEdlTt+Ip9KrjGZ3GowWMXYmMcFGme1cQuz4R7FNKMRCy7+GWQGG+h4II= X-Received: by 2002:a37:353:0:b0:69f:eb29:bcdf with SMTP id 80-20020a370353000000b0069feb29bcdfmr3051222qkd.748.1651513353222; Mon, 02 May 2022 10:42:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9EB92333-42A7-401E-A273-D35A681B02A5@iitbombay.org> In-Reply-To: <9EB92333-42A7-401E-A273-D35A681B02A5@iitbombay.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 13:42:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c2d32b05de0aeabe" Subject: Re: [TUHS] First Unix-like OSes not derived from AT&T code? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000c2d32b05de0aeabe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 12:16 PM Bakul Shah wrote: > Thoth as students but QNX is not derived from it. Interesting. Possible I suppose. Derived is probably the operative word here. Of course, it is also quite possible that I could be miss-remember the conversations, but as IIRC both Mike Malcolm and Dan Hildebrandt have said to me about the influence of one on the other when I have spoken with them socially. Also, Kelly (who got the shirt and was at Waterloo during that time), and was the person that introduced me to Mike in the late 1970s; also said something similar to me. FWIW: In the late 1980s, I too used QNX (in C) in a production setting on a 386. Before that, I had played with Thoth in a grad OS course, but I never ran it significantly. That said, my point was that Thoth was not trying to be a UNIX look/work alike from an API standpoint. Thoth, like V, RIG, Accent, *et al*, were all distinct developments that learned from the UNIX work but were not trying to emulate it. When QNX was birthed, the mK was not trying to be UNIX, but they, like Mach later on (after the failure of Accent), did try to supply an application layer UNIX (and later full POSIX) API. The point that started this thread was when UNIX emulated. BTW: I had Ieft out another important Pascal-based UNIX clone. In 1983, Michael Gien published his work in USENIX on Sol. In the early 1990s, he and his team rewrote that in C++ to create Chorus. When OSF announced its long-term strategy for OSF/1 was to be based on Mach; UI announced that the future SVR6 was to be based on Chorus. While the former was eventually released (and I think the sources can still be found in the wild), I did not believe the latter was ever completed. Clem =E1=90=A7 --000000000000c2d32b05de0aeabe Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On M= on, May 2, 2022 at 12:16 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
=C2=A0Thoth as stu= dents but QNX is not derived from it.=C2=A0
Interesting.=C2=A0Possible I suppose.=C2=A0 Derived is= probably the operative word here.=C2=A0 Of course, it is also quite possib= le that I could be miss-remember the conversations, but as IIRC both Mike M= alcolm and=C2=A0Dan Hildebrandt h= ave said to me about the influence of one on the other when I have spoken w= ith them socially.=C2=A0 Also, Kelly (who got the shirt and was at Waterloo= during that time), and was the person that introduced me to Mike in the la= te 1970s; also said something similar to me.

= FWIW: In = the late 1980s, I too used QNX (in C) in a production setting = on a 386.=C2=A0 Before that, I had played with= Thoth=C2=A0in a grad=C2=A0OS course, but I never ran it significantly.

That said, my point was that Thoth= was not trying to be a UNIX look/work alike from an API standpoint.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Thoth, like V,=C2=A0 RIG, Accent,=C2=A0et al, were all distinc= t developments that=C2=A0learned from the UNIX work but were not trying to = emulate it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0When QNX was birthed, the mK was not trying to be U= NIX, but they, like Mach later on (after the failure of Accent), did try to= supply an application layer UNIX (and later full POSIX) API.=C2=A0=C2=A0

The point that started this thread was when UNIX emulated.

B= TW: I had Ieft out another important Pascal-based UNIX clone.=C2=A0 In 1983= , Michael Gien published his work in USENIX on Sol.=C2=A0 In the early 1990= s, he and his team rewrote that in C++ to create Chorus.

When OSF announced its long-term=C2=A0s= trategy for OSF/1 was to be based on Mach; UI announced that the future SVR= 6 was to be based on Chorus.=C2=A0 While the former was eventually released= (and I think the sources can still be found in the wild), I did not believ= e the latter was ever completed.
Clem


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