From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 4e305335 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:36:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id EE9E79BDA9; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:36:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15429BD4F; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:35:58 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="gwbuJ/NR"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 231439BD16; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:35:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm1-f49.google.com (mail-wm1-f49.google.com [209.85.128.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B1319BD15 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:35:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-f49.google.com with SMTP id f17so195536wme.2 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:35:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9gzJo9xs1L2oZXA9F8oufUWN0uaLENDHKJNSGx2R2ok=; b=gwbuJ/NRXqviUuBJ9JBdBgPjlx+1hfXwi23y0IeoPSoUXQqytP72BZoYOx0gNOugqY igqcLuSIy1eVKb86PwLMp/9E98bxdJjPapLoyfwt7/NiJKLjL7daaNvjqLe2VNBKWMgx pN8RG54ySP98QviBzHxtZyMUWLf9/P2UBA7P8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9gzJo9xs1L2oZXA9F8oufUWN0uaLENDHKJNSGx2R2ok=; b=KCaZDfASAz07vxP2hr7iStMGmSfG7bb9nIcFyFD6ROvVf7RgpJfW8Zxht4vdbxU0Cg wzmHfBWTH0nl4AyDlmOF1P3D8LS0cKQvbmG2iN1ieYUWB7Q6NIMMt1hx9OUUv0LaAxsY WCqQTkO4vr/uGfyjlaw8MAFVJX5uMND0uqlAxGjoQzve1KKyZRvDgwBs1E0wqXnnkf5r kvOorA4TYqXsm7KOkfS5ZErQQXdZk2BgxAv77be7cLKX2r0QQlNw+2Po5q4upj+ZsA5b TjMxm+wMYYa9t6Hgw+fAU9AmNCeWFfjWKyeZ6eD2omNTrcg4w28WehwFgHG7aRf4jVo5 KHWw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUQ6Ebmg3+LLOFaB2yDEw5BnZPUczzQYEPbUk4vnB218GeSL2WF oi1uKHakHbuLrd3P4V3Tbsf58zPDfjtpsXG0kU1ZVfLsM8JSkg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxsxjGgNJWUd+0bMjho85rWGu8NEMKmvTjLJJ09frxXQHmDVYr2Do0aFgH2wrWZwnVmPlfxquU1xZy1EAnwV14= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:8049:: with SMTP id b70mr189577wmd.33.1561494951677; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:35:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1561491205.19116.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> In-Reply-To: <1561491205.19116.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:35:25 +0000 Message-ID: To: Norman Wilson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e9e479058c2bdfa1" Subject: Re: [TUHS] 4.1c bsd ptrace man entry ("ptrace is unique and arcane") X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000e9e479058c2bdfa1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 7:34 PM Norman Wilson wrote: > It's interesting that this comment about ptrace was written > as early as 1980. > Indeed - that seems to be really strange. I wonder of the Man page was written later. > > I don't know when Tom's code first went > live, but I first heard about it by seeing it in action on my first > visit to Bell Labs in early 1984, and it was described in public in > a talk at the Summer 1984 USENIX conference in Salt Lake City. > Ditto. The 84 paper was the first I knew about it but .... It's possible Tom was messing with it before then. Joy spent a couple of Summers in NJ but I've forgotten when. But if it was being talked about/prototyped in the summer of '79, he might have known by 1980. But I find that unlikely. I really don't remember people going /proc crazy until after the '84 paper. The other minor thing missing was the VFS/File System Switch layer. Peter had not put FSS into Research 8. What I don't remember is which came first Peter's work for Tom. The RFS guys would use Peter's work for V.3. I used it something similar for EFS after reading about it and the NFS/EFS are '85 USENIX. Somebody at Sun did VFS, which was better than FSS, although later we came to conclusion both had advantages and disadvantages and a true i-node interposition layer was best so you could really want to do FS stacking. But by that time, the damage was done, and people had gone FS crazy. Since Sun gave away NFS and Peter's work was tied up in either Research 8 or V.3 (i.e. AT&T licensing), VFS won. --000000000000e9e479058c2bdfa1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 7:34= PM Norman Wilson <norman@oclsc.org<= /a>> wrote:
I= t's interesting that this comment about ptrace was written
as early as 1980.
Indeed - that seems to be reall= y strange.=C2=A0 I wonder of the Man page was written later.=C2=A0

I don't know when Tom's code first went
live, but I first heard about it by seeing it in action on my first
visit to Bell Labs in early 1984, and it was described in public in
a talk at the Summer 1984 USENIX conference in Salt Lake City.
Ditto.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The 84 paper was the first I knew about it = but ....

It's possible T= om was messing with it before then.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Joy spent a couple of Summe= rs in NJ but I've forgotten when.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But if it was being talke= d about/prototyped in the summer of '79, he might have known by 1980.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0But I find that unlikely.

I really don't remember people going /proc crazy until after = the '84 paper.
The other minor thing missing was the VFS/File S= ystem Switch layer.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Peter had not put FSS into Research 8.
What I don't remember is which came first Peter's work for Tom.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0The RFS guys would use Peter's work for V.3.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I= used it something similar for EFS after reading about it and the NFS/EFS a= re '85 USENIX.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Somebody at Sun did VFS, which was better t= han FSS, although later we came to conclusion both had advantages and disad= vantages and a true i-node interposition layer was best so you could really= want to do FS stacking.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But by that time, the damage was done,= and people had gone FS crazy.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Since Sun gave away NFS and Pete= r's work was tied up in either Research 8 or V.3 (i.e. AT&T licensi= ng), VFS won.

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