From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,LOTS_OF_MONEY, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 728bf3ac for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 21:26:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E78F69C14D; Sun, 24 Nov 2019 07:26:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44D293D74; Sun, 24 Nov 2019 07:25:39 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="U+bOURdA"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8D74C93D74; Sun, 24 Nov 2019 07:25:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f173.google.com (mail-qt1-f173.google.com [209.85.160.173]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5FEC93D71 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2019 07:25:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f173.google.com with SMTP id t20so12310081qtn.9 for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 13:25:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Gb0N8oQOIXlxmbj4OrP1JvWB9JJ+itucygGcVKeWREM=; b=U+bOURdA5q/Ty9jrVYVXRDDwN44x78aonqcNI0gbjMohnwy/fMkreGXXpL7QAjLcVZ fToJS+AtC8PbV++z/JQaTZ0/xHmfE5lYGr9X1NitmVwXyRn5F0yfxxs8yeWWmF6rJGZt GbDeGyFBg3MgY2dYp7M2tpnqcKTAbjdwJXj8k= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Gb0N8oQOIXlxmbj4OrP1JvWB9JJ+itucygGcVKeWREM=; b=OVlISIgGRAzus/I/B1w0q77bUimvsvy9TvtrglsbY7sv1riE3lIcKQXh+GCNEgFtTT TaJQHTImwLi7GtikKW2lhDWDdZ2Mcpi41wT0hgFjTxR7TrFo3Sa/3AO/kpINwAbMouYN 1BVH7jua8foSR+7NsUaZet7HPNHOPA0xqIY3Oo17x/e/aqjCD4sPfliH4D7TTsopukLo 9ww0UlJdSwGX5pklcsnwSHh60wSSVuO8FHHQZXi9703DfmwPgCz8IVQaaDxhNdllRgj1 NP1Fxgsd2ZH29W9Sad9Ku8O+9ba2qoBCFdi0FPyEJIqTmCRurkjXvsP9ZaqMRxwdX36v kjHA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXpSfJRgzuPvZtpkhAb3IFqha5nG6PuEtLM7CaJ4SgfhsARwRWX NIFVTk25KpdY9davu+icTtP51NIrbXlq9pzULSgKR1JUdXk9AA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyko2QxXtNJWiFgrqr30fcOoHTt8uvjv+ER+SqG8jWjkqKiZO+YfEJXIhr8oVrvWSHhlV3tDRK6TizqkfoArZw= X-Received: by 2002:aed:3eee:: with SMTP id o43mr13086141qtf.33.1574544334431; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 13:25:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4B4A388452D2A7418879B110A352A8F4018878C992@EX-MB1.hq.computerhistory.org> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 16:25:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bcbc5705980a2b9c" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Western Electric "Research Unix" License Contacts X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org" Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000bcbc5705980a2b9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Jeremy, I have described much of this in previous messages. So to recap.... The first licensee was Columbia University (Lou Katz), 4th Edition and I >>believe<< Harvard was second, but it might have been someone else in NYC. I was always under the impression that Rand Corp was the first commercial license, when a couple of Harvard Students wanted to bring it west. CMU, MIT, UofI were all about 1-3 years later. I believe MIT and CMU started with 5th edition and UofI 6th. Chesson is no longer with us to verify, but I think Steve Holmgren was in on that, and I believe I have seem him on a couple of other mailing lists. CMU was definitely 5th edition to start, and quickly went to 6th. MIT had it early also since, like CMU, they had interns and OYOC students from the Labs, so code went freely both ways in those days. The redistribution license is a little more hazy. It was either Peter Weiner at ISC or the folks at Wollongong. I had always been under the belief it was Peter, but Werner has some data that shows Wollongong was either at the same time or shortly thereafter. These were custom licenses for V6 and its not clear about certain details and Werner seems to think not exactly the same (*i.e.* Wollongong negotiated some special terms no one else had). Al Arms (AT&T legal) is likely to be the only person that really knows for sure, as he was the common thread on all it in the early days. With Seventh Edition, Al wrote the first general commercial redistribution license with sliding fees etc. If you wanted a 7th edition license, any previous licenses we voided. There was great moaning about the fees. After about 6 months, Prof Dennis Allison of Stanford (who was consulting for just about all of us in those days), brokered a meeting at Ricki's Hyatt in Palo Alto, I want to say winter 1980. This was the beginning of the more global negotiation with what would become the System III license (all flavors). Again this license superseded all previous ones. And thus the #1 president for the later OSF creation came into being, so called: '*Stable Licensing Terms*.' When the System V license was released, AT&T changed things again. By the time of SVR3 the commercial folks had had enough and a war ensued. On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:03 AM wrote: > Any more details about this? > > The Dec. 1973 agreement with Univ. of California is "solely for > academic and educational purposes" and included "source program code". > (Their initial installs were 4th edition.) > > The slightly revised Dec. 1974 agreement with Katholieke Universiteit > is also solely for academic and educational purposes" with nominal > service charge of $150. (This was signed in February 1975 a little > before the 6th edition came out.) > > I read multiple times that the first "source" licensee may have been the > Univ. of Illinois. But I also read they were the first "source" licensee > for the "5th" edition so not any Unix source license in general. > > Was Univ. of Illinois the first source licensee regardless of the > edition (so prior to Dec. 1973 / Jan. 1974)? Any docs/citations on > this? > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20160322042314/http://www.ece.ubc.ca/~gillies/mail/dbgillies_ken_thompson.txt > suggests the agreement with Univ. of Illinois happened a few months > before July 1975, so maybe it couldn't have been the first (since there > are copies of agreements prior years with other schools) even though > that says the first. > > The (Univ. of Illinois) Network UNIX RFC 681 is dated March 18, 1975 and > NIC 32157 dated May 14, 1975. It references Fifth Edition and has: > > BELL'S POLICY IN THE PAST HAS BEEN TO LISCENSE THE SYSTEM TO > UNIVERSITIES FOR A NOMINAL FEE, $150.00, AND UNFORTUNATELY FOR A COST > OF $20,000.00 TO "NONUNIVERSITY" INSTITUTIONS. > > Since the NIC has later date that the RFC maybe this was updated later > than the RFC date so the commercial cost is really about the 6th > edition? > > Does anyone have a copy of the software agreement for a non-university, > or without the "solely for academic" clause, or for $20,000 from early > 1975 (or for 5th edition)? > > This 1983 Byte magazine article > > https://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1983-10/1983_10_BYTE_08-10_UNIX#page/n133/mode/2up > says the 6th edition was first Unix to be sold to commercial firms. A > company license was $20,000 and a educational license was $200. > > Anyone have a copy of any 6th edition license agreement? > (The author of > > https://wiki.tuhs.org/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=publications:theses:gmp_thesis.pdf > says has a copy signed May 12, 1977 but I couldn't get in contact with > yet.) > > I understand the agreement for 7th Edition included a clause saying a > course curriculum couldn't discuss or describe the code. (John > Lions clause). > > Does anyone have a 7th edition license? (Educational or otherwise?) > (Again the author of above thesis says has copy of a 7th edition > education license signed Feb. 20, 1981.) > > Does anyone have Exhibit F -- the "32V Software Agreement" dated April > 1, 1979 -- for the AT&T/USL vs. BSDI/Univ. of California Jun 1992 > complaint (or Exhibit B to the DeFazio Affidavit)? (See > 920724.complaint.txt and more details in 930107.amicus.txt and > 930108.oppose.txt.) Or maybe the 1981 relicense? > > What does it mean about the often mentioned first commercial > version from AT&T wasn't until System III (Unix Release 3.0) in 1982? > This is confusing since documented references to commercial versions in > early 1975. Is this about AT&T proper instead of Bell Labs? Or maybe > about official commercial support? > > (RFC 681 which mentions the $20,000 non-university license fee also > mentions RAND, Lincoln Laboratories, and Inco had Network UNIX source > code, but unsure if that means that had the commercial license too. > There are other commercial licenses long prior to System III, but maybe > it is about professional support.) > --000000000000bcbc5705980a2b9c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jeremy,

I=C2=A0 have described muc= h of this in previous messages.=C2=A0 =C2=A0So to recap....

The first licensee was Columbia University (Lou Katz), 4th Edition an= d I >>believe<< Harvard was second, but it might have been some= one else in NYC.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I was always under the impression that Rand Co= rp was the first commercial license, when a couple of Harvard Students want= ed to bring it west.=C2=A0 =C2=A0CMU, MIT, UofI were all about 1-3 years la= ter.=C2=A0 I believe MIT and CMU started with 5th edition and UofI 6th.=C2= =A0 Chesson is no longer with us to verify, but I think Steve Holmgren was = in on that, and I believe I have seem him on a couple of other mailing list= s.=C2=A0 CMU was definitely 5th edition to start, and quickly went to 6th.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0MIT had it early also since, like CMU, they had interns and OY= OC students from the Labs, so code went freely both ways in those days.

The redistribution license is a little more hazy. It was = either Peter Weiner at ISC or the folks at Wollongong.=C2=A0 I had always b= een under the belief it was Peter, but Werner has some data that shows Woll= ongong was either at the same time or shortly thereafter.=C2=A0 =C2=A0These= were custom licenses for V6 and its not clear about certain details and We= rner seems to think not exactly the same (i.e. Wollongong negotiated= some special terms no one else had).=C2=A0 Al Arms (AT&T legal) is lik= ely to be the only person that really knows for sure, as he was the common = thread on all it in the early days.=C2=A0=C2=A0

With S= eventh Edition, Al wrote the first general commercial=C2=A0redistribution l= icense with sliding fees etc.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If you wanted a 7th edition licen= se, any previous licenses we voided.=C2=A0 There was great moaning about th= e fees.=C2=A0 =C2=A0After about 6 months, Prof Dennis Allison of Stanford (= who was consulting for just about all of us in those days), brokered a meet= ing at Ricki's Hyatt in Palo Alto, I want to say winter 1980.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0This was the beginning of the more global negotiation with what would be= come the System III license (all flavors).=C2=A0 Again this license superse= ded all previous ones.

And thus the #1 president=C2=A0= for the later OSF creation came into being, so called: 'Stable Licen= sing Terms.'=C2=A0 When the System V license was released, AT&T= changed things again.=C2=A0 =C2=A0By the time of SVR3 the commercial=C2=A0= folks had had enough and a war ensued.



On Sa= t, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:03 AM <reed@= reedmedia.net> wrote:
Any more details about this?

The Dec. 1973 agreement with Univ. of California is "solely for
academic and educational purposes" and included "source program c= ode".
(Their initial installs were 4th edition.)

The slightly revised Dec. 1974 agreement with Katholieke Universiteit
is also solely for academic and educational purposes" with nominal service charge of $150. (This was signed in February 1975 a little
before the 6th edition came out.)

I read multiple times that the first "source" licensee may have b= een the
Univ. of Illinois. But I also read they were the first "source" l= icensee
for the "5th" edition so not any Unix source license in general. =

Was Univ. of Illinois the first source licensee regardless of the
edition (so prior to Dec. 1973 / Jan. 1974)?=C2=A0 Any docs/citations on this?

https://web.archive.org/web/20160322042314/http://www.ece.ubc.ca/~gill= ies/mail/dbgillies_ken_thompson.txt
=C2=A0suggests the agreement with Univ. of Illinois happened a few months <= br> before July 1975, so maybe it couldn't have been the first (since there=
are copies of agreements prior years with other schools) even though
that says the first.

The (Univ. of Illinois) Network UNIX RFC 681 is dated March 18, 1975 and NIC 32157 dated May 14, 1975. It references Fifth Edition and has:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0BELL'S POLICY IN THE PAST HAS BEEN TO LISCENSE THE SYSTEM = TO
=C2=A0 =C2=A0UNIVERSITIES FOR A NOMINAL FEE, $150.00, AND UNFORTUNATELY FOR= A COST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OF $20,000.00 TO "NONUNIVERSITY" INSTITUTIONS.

Since the NIC has later date that the RFC maybe this was updated later
than the RFC date so the commercial cost is really about the 6th
edition?

Does anyone have a copy of the software agreement for a non-university, or without the "solely for academic" clause, or for $20,000 from = early
1975 (or for 5th edition)?

This 1983 Byte magazine article
https://a= rchive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1983-10/1983_10_BYTE_08-10_UNIX#page/n133/m= ode/2up
says the 6th edition was first Unix to be sold to commercial firms. A
company license was $20,000 and a educational license was $200.

Anyone have a copy of any 6th edition license agreement?
(The author of
https://wiki.tuhs.= org/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=3Dpublications:theses:gmp_thesis.pdf
says has a copy signed May 12, 1977 but I couldn't get in contact with =
yet.)

I understand the agreement for 7th Edition included a clause saying a
course curriculum couldn't discuss or describe the code. (John
Lions clause).

Does anyone have a 7th edition license? (Educational or otherwise?)
(Again the author of above thesis says has copy of a 7th edition
education license signed Feb. 20, 1981.)

Does anyone have Exhibit F -- the "32V Software Agreement" dated = April
1, 1979 -- for the AT&T/USL vs. BSDI/Univ. of California Jun 1992
complaint (or Exhibit B to the DeFazio Affidavit)? (See
920724.complaint.txt and more details in 930107.amicus.txt and
930108.oppose.txt.)=C2=A0 Or maybe the 1981 relicense?

What does it mean about the often mentioned first commercial
version from AT&T wasn't until System III (Unix Release 3.0) in 198= 2?
This is confusing since documented references to commercial versions in early 1975.=C2=A0 Is this about AT&T proper instead of Bell Labs? Or ma= ybe
about official commercial support?

(RFC 681 which mentions the $20,000 non-university license fee also
mentions RAND, Lincoln Laboratories, and Inco had Network UNIX source
code, but unsure if that means that had the commercial license too.
There are other commercial licenses long prior to System III, but maybe it is about professional support.)
--000000000000bcbc5705980a2b9c--