Except A68 is the core of Bourne Shell. Truth is original Algol’s DNA - much less A68 - lived on in most programming languages we use today. Not knowing anything about both puts you at a huge disadvantage.
Linux at its core is the Unix ideas (core IP) not the source code. Trying to rid it of so called “bad ideas” shows how little respect those taking such actions have. In others word, their taste is rather disappointing if not out right poor.
Frankly my major complaint with much of the modern world is that when we ignore the past and we are cursed for forgetting its lessons. As had been said many times before, we are better served when we stand on the shoulders of great people rather than stepping on their toes.
This discussion wrt the systemd is a prefect example.
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
Algol has been a dead language for many years, for good reasons too.
> On 17 Jun 2024, at 5:44 AM, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 2:50 PM Greg A. Woods <woods@robohack.ca> wrote:
> In the "Unix world" everyone learns shell scripting, some better than
> others of course, and some hate it at the same time too, but I would say
> from my experience it's a given. You either learn shell scripting or
> you are "just a user" (even if you also write application code).
> Side story - I think you can tell a lot about a person by what is on their bookshelf at work and what books they have read.
>
> A few years ago, I discovered this same flaw in using UNIX (Linux) well with some of the new hires (from really good schools, too), and it was worse because they often had never seen the true Bourne shell (nor knew much/anything about Algol, much less A68). Many thought "bash" was the UNIX shell because they never knew better (chuckle). I realized it was a huge hole in their education, so I got my admin to order each copies of K&R2 and UPE for their desks. I said I expected them to do the exercises in them as part of their "training." I could usually tell a lot about each person by the questions they asked during that period. Many often griped about having to learn to use ed and nroff. I think those that were already EMACS folks thought I was a little bonkers but my comment was that you'll understand the other tools better/be a lot more effective with the shell in particular. Many had seen Latex, so the >>idea<< of a document compiler was not always completely foreign. But they crawled through each book.
>
> But it was interesting when it was done. To a person, they all said they were much better with the UNIX tool kit after UPE, and because they actually read K&R2, they often learned a few things about C they never realized. Once they "graduated" also I gave them a copy of APUE, if they were doing networking stuff, UNP too. Most would start doing the APUE and UNP problems also as I would get some of them coming to my office with questions, but I never said they had to do them.
>
> Clem
> ᐧ
Peter Yardley
peter.martin.yardley@gmail.com