From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, LOTS_OF_MONEY,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 7a03be08 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:14:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 326B194FC8; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:14:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2222094FBA; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:14:03 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="gzjY4vya"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 93DB294FB8; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:13:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm1-f67.google.com (mail-wm1-f67.google.com [209.85.128.67]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6EEA94FB7 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:13:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-f67.google.com with SMTP id f188so3011772wmf.5 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:13:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sWGCMBWdD1XQIV5oD96w9rEzse2Lkc0IbRhMnmoXGig=; b=gzjY4vyaBVZLetuOlLgY1OosLt9/K6NZohFZKGY0Z4bDTCJsBc7Roz8yT0lJOvDTXc 9ECkWqcy/3vuC+6Glp80pMTx5pb9NfjIsr5myrtjLY3HrW+VF/jiWT+ybUm0lzau+/cg taLjoAs+rfZj09h4olNFleur9uHy8D57XzzNA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sWGCMBWdD1XQIV5oD96w9rEzse2Lkc0IbRhMnmoXGig=; b=CP/3T9nTtWeAuR9jatw12M1lkCYdKQYwzRbRApeuycsLRh8i+8gGKvESdhnVd2fJp4 z83IdhnKyCKbeSHiakjF2ieF9rk0HtxwOvZcC7LfunKLEvScIsGgsnwx/ZPgMeAIHA/l 3A4TWPlo1JwomaPcBx8eUzs9W3DCh5Yn67SnJijJchZolzxgkGhdYezzisOwDbfuA08j CWZltLDCV8SrA+PbpSE8HOjh1ubZCwvPdBx/bztcg9m1OcQBOSyo+HcXF/0JbwGUDclL BnwEFZRsPKvZK+b4dmgj4H31erTCARLM44O9FsO9muIxd4sYi92sN3FnXMObycbNCssj b+JQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeAJCNY6VYNY9TyROOsXFXVk41DxACOIryLwnowAjWWO2VhjBaW rAio4IjHv95wwXsWPnnSz3AAu416+cgza4AC5W6skg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5EjuHh2tvGjS+zeX1MjVbB4dKagrPeuONdA1mFtAX/E+Cv1hZhgv/eBckKBhzilZzxeALCuyQBo8XYqaf5pnE= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:30b:: with SMTP id 11mr8509736wmd.110.1547662436067; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:13:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190116172950.GL7733@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20190116172950.GL7733@mcvoy.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 13:13:30 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bc041c057f973d40" Subject: Re: [TUHS] DEC and Dave Cutler (was Re: The John Snow's of the UNIX family) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000bc041c057f973d40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 12:30 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 11:55:03AM -0500, Paul Winalski wrote: > > DEC's downfall was a total lack of skill at marketing. > > Sun made stuff that was just as good as what DEC built but they were > cheaper. DEC couldn't adapt to decent machines that didn't cost a big > pile. > > History repeats itself, Sun couldn't wean itself off $20,000 workstations= when > you could get an almost as fast PC for 1/4th or less of that price point. I think you are both right actually and in some ways saying the same thing. I refer to this as the economic of solution argument. It's right out of Clay Christensen 's book The Innovator's Dilemma The problem as Larry point out, is that when some one else does something that is economically a better solution, it is marketing jobs to understand that. and help lead the company with products that work. The problem is that marketing rarely says, "We need to eat out own lunch/children ... etc." Instead they talk to customers who tell them make XXX for their futhure more specialized and higher end system, which of course has higher margins. I worked with a VP that once said: "I'd rather sell a $100K system then a $10K one, because the cost of sale is the same." What he did not realize is that Sun was selling 20 systems for $10k, while DEC (or Masscomp) sold one at $10k. Clem =E1=90=A7 --000000000000bc041c057f973d40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On W= ed, Jan 16, 2019 at 12:30 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 11:55:= 03AM -0500, Paul Winalski wrote:
> DEC's downfall was a total lack of skill at marketing.=C2=A0

Sun made stuff that was just as good as what DE= C built but they were cheaper.=C2=A0 DEC couldn't adapt to decent machines that didn&= #39;t cost a b= ig pile.

History repeats itself, Sun couldn't wean itself off $20,000 workstatio= ns when you co= uld get an almost as fast PC for 1/4th or less of that price point.
I think you are both right actually and in some ways saying the same= thing.=C2=A0 I refer to this as the economic of solution argument.=C2=A0 I= t's right out of Clay Ch= ristensen's book The Innovator's Dilemma = =C2=A0

The problem as Larry point out,= is that when some one else does something that is economically a better so= lution, it is marketing jobs to understand that. and help lead the company = with products that work.=C2=A0 The problem is that marketing rarely says, &= quot;We need to eat out own lunch/children ... etc."=C2=A0 Instead the= y talk to customers who tell them make XXX for their futhure more specializ= ed and higher end system, which of course has higher margins.=C2=A0 I worke= d with a VP that once said: "I'd rather sell a $100K system then a= $10K one, because the cost of sale is the same."=C2=A0 =C2=A0What he = did not realize is that Sun was selling 20 systems for $10k, while DEC (or = Masscomp) sold one at $10k.

Clem

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