The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: clemc@ccc.com (Clem Cole)
Subject: [TUHS] How do we learn about maintainability - was Re: really Pottering vs UNIX
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:44:37 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAC20D2O32zdU4m5osakHihX8p1k4T9n4WXDhdBmzH5_pHfSTUA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <deb5d145-90d7-c9ed-0984-9238e30d2308@telegraphics.com.au>

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2040 bytes --]

On Sat, Sep 16, 20
​ ​
17 at 2:05 PM, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:

> ​...
>  I believe being a maintenance programmer on other
> people's code is so important; you'll be left with a real understanding
> of why good practice is important, and, quite likely, a fiery desire to
> try to make things better.
>
> I think any junior programmer would benefit from at least five years of
> maintenance experience. Giving them greenfield projects out of the gate,
> especially unsupervised, merely adds to the pile of unmaintainable stuff
> - while teaching them very little.


​I hear you and I agree in so many ways but .. but its hard to get someone,
particularly some one young and eager to to see that value.​   This is why
I like to have them work side-by-side with my my senior folks.   And
everyone does maintenance - everyone working on the same project.   I'll
carefully pick something for them to do.   But some of my best and creative
work, has come from some of my most junior folks - because they did not
know it was hard.  That said, it's my job to keep a weather eye on them.

But I want the sr folks doing the maintenance work also.   Just like when
is a system programmer, I was required to be and system operator (the grunt
task - changing tapes, paper, answering questions) at least 4 hours a
week.  Why?   because it was incentive to make sure we had the procedures
right and easy.



Jon described the effect of putting everyone together at Bell Labs
(and Tektronix).  I admit, Jon and I were lucky.   We grew up in
environments were we got to working most anything, but we were next to pros
(if not geniuses).   But we knew them as people and colleagues and they
quietly taught us.  And I picked up 'good taste' by readying their code,
looking at their designs; have been comment on mine.  Having them show me
something...

Clem
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20170918/1fae963c/attachment.html>


  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-09-18 14:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-09-14 20:46 [TUHS] " Clem Cole
2017-09-14 21:15 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-15  1:24   ` Dan Cross
2017-09-15  1:39     ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-15  3:00     ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-15  5:42     ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-15 13:26       ` Clem Cole
2017-09-15 19:10       ` Chris Torek
2017-09-15 19:19         ` Paul Winalski
2017-09-16 18:05         ` [TUHS] How do we learn about maintainability - was " Toby Thain
2017-09-16 19:12           ` [TUHS] Maintainability, Guilds, RMS, etc. all lumped into one Jon Steinhart
2017-09-17 18:50             ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-18 14:44           ` Clem Cole [this message]
2017-09-15  6:43     ` [TUHS] really Pottering vs UNIX Bakul Shah

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=CAC20D2O32zdU4m5osakHihX8p1k4T9n4WXDhdBmzH5_pHfSTUA@mail.gmail.com \
    --to=clemc@ccc.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).