From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 20577 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2021 22:56:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Jun 2021 22:56:43 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BAC0F94907; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 08:56:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD52B93DC0; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 08:55:38 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="QpLhpu+k"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E782293DC0; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 08:55:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f53.google.com (mail-qv1-f53.google.com [209.85.219.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D50ED93D62 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 08:55:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f53.google.com with SMTP id g19so2665745qvx.12 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:55:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Q+YoFJym3GDfyYC7WiPOqfvwRlnz0ENv/OMCJc0mcKU=; b=QpLhpu+kv+a83g9+neWEaCaiAwC1mhjmjyz/MLMVT1xOhhW5MjWpgCtdLnO2/VQUU2 IQTmEd94J4VYcXqEx6ra9DkUWWfPYLqqny2IBQp1gOg+Gef7kT8m3L4HZ3h/U2XvCxw2 cpPxNatlTDGuJf36YkqHa4kPYRgPQZl56vNaY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Q+YoFJym3GDfyYC7WiPOqfvwRlnz0ENv/OMCJc0mcKU=; b=OsfwSLoIBceZSi/jEwSPH1RdqIvfQAwP43bietcd/qYZLBO/CljV0zPQMln/RpwBz0 5P/nq3h7E4Vt7vurqfejGRn9X3YCbf2Qpk0DbdIInZMlMe1y1q2NNR8svga0ww2A5DuN PYWvgNJanH28xZggJEsOfYmZsUYGS21Ku2Two1R2H0MCArvc5nxpizLP9CCdzu+zXiyu UyR9lL1Nz6GYjVgaICAIscWCvICPOETxXc+lrDq7ztzaVI4ELvEDOU6mhsxsz3CMIDHh Z2MUguWa3oYx/RMWrlspUPIhngUO+8E8D1xVLOhLBtYKnt/SF5BISUKbiKbsTuXta4OL A4Vw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532W/B2rjYl4BEWIHb1DX2axXxz/Nt1aYboyYo3wDsefmLH9zb5t s37C6Hzm28rcjfC8KALklhz2zUfOfTG1LiqpNedqKQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwsTApcBNJ4TbkX/bFxYZ1xuQE2vtTx2dqHd6BxNp0oaciHbna7SAj3abOyLtWWApPxzkLyZKPi88CWtn3Bxrw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:1d0f:: with SMTP id e15mr12456141qvd.40.1624143332691; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:55:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 18:55:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: Rob Pike Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000068e90e05c5265688" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Disassemblers X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000068e90e05c5265688 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Ah -- if it was adb you redid, no doubt of its power. I used adb for a long time -- PDP-11/VAX/68K but as you said, you could learn a lot about your system. FWIW: we embedded adb into RTU, calling it kdb. We didn't have no fancy VMs to run the system under, when it halted, it halted. On a personal machine that was not a problem and adb/kdb was very cool. Clem On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 5:50 PM Rob Pike wrote: > Although upon reflection, I think what I did was fix 'adb' and call it > 'db'. Haven't had my coffee yet this morning. > > -rob > > > On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 7:49 AM Rob Pike wrote: > >> For v8 or thereabouts, I spent some time fixing some fundamental bugs in >> db and found that it was arcane but remarkably powerful. Since it was lower >> level, it avoided the endemic debugging problem of misleading you about >> your program: All it could do was tell you what the machine was doing. >> (Cdb, sdb, and adb were, at least in my experience, always lying to you.) I >> may be the only person who appreciated db fully. Once the bugs were gone >> you really could use it to good effect, as long as you understood the CPU. >> >> But it was buggy and arcane, no question about that. >> >> -rob >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 6:46 AM Richard Salz wrote: >> >>> I remember compiling and playing Langston's "empire" that I was told >>> came from a decompiled executable. This was in the 4.2 days. >>> >> --00000000000068e90e05c5265688 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ah -- if it was adb you redid, no doubt of its power.= =C2=A0 I used adb for a long time -- PDP-11/VAX/68K but as you said, you co= uld learn a lot about your system. =C2=A0 FWIW: =C2=A0we embedded adb into = RTU, calling it kdb. =C2=A0 We didn't have no fancy VMs to run the syst= em under, when it halted, it halted. =C2=A0 On a personal machine that was = not a problem and adb/kdb was very cool.

Clem

On = Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 5:50 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
Although upon reflection, I think what I did was fix 'adb' and= call it 'db'. Haven't had my coffee yet this morning.

=
-rob


On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 7:49 AM Rob Pik= e <robpike@gmail.= com> wrote:
For v8 or the= reabouts, I spent some time fixing some fundamental bugs in db and found th= at it was arcane but remarkably powerful. Since it was lower level, it avoi= ded the endemic debugging problem of misleading you about your program: All= it could do was tell you what the machine was doing. (Cdb, sdb, and adb we= re, at least in my experience, always lying to you.) I may be the only pers= on who appreciated db fully. Once the bugs were gone you really could use i= t to good effect, as long as you understood the CPU.

But= it was buggy and arcane, no question about that.

= -rob




On Sun, Jun 20, 2021= at 6:46 AM Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote:
=
I remember compiling and playing Langston's "empi= re" that I was told came from a decompiled executable. This was in the= 4.2 days.
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