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From: clemc@ccc.com (Clem Cole)
Subject: [TUHS] Mach for i386 / Mt Xinu or other
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 10:02:22 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAC20D2O6QxqBjQ4KKpG1u3U60KQbvHmRJR+NHhy3W4s-aCyRqA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170221120218.E07BA18C10B@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

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On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:

> So there is a question here, though, and I'm curious to see what others who
> were closer to the action think. Why _did_ Linux succeed, and not a Unix
> derivative? (Is there any work which looks at this question? Some Linux
> history? If not, there should be.)
>


​I​'ve thought and written a bit about this question a bit [
Would it be possible/advantageous to rewrite the Linux kernel in Rust when
the language is stable?
<https://www.quora.com/Would-it-be-possible-advantageous-to-rewrite-the-Linux-kernel-in-Rust-when-the-language-is-stable>
 &
 Why did Unix succeed and not Multics
<https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Unix-succeed-and-not-Multics> ] ​
​
and I'll not repeat all of here but
​as one of the people that did switch from 386BSD to linux at the time, the
reason for me was purely because of the AT&T/BSDi case.    You are right, I
wanted a "free" (i.e. very inexpensive) UNIX for the 386 and the "big
guns"​ were not going to give it.   I thought we had it the 386 port BSD
which I had helped in a small way to create.

​But I like, most hackers of the day, misunderstood incorrectly​ the case
to be about *trade secret *and the all based around the 1956 consent
decree, IBM vs AT&T; telephones and the computers. I was worried AT&T would
win because it was going to hard to cleaim that that the BSD code was not a
derivative work of the AT&T *copyright code base *(not understanding the *trade
secret*  and the  *copyright* difference mattered).

So...I switched to Linux *not because I thought it was "better"* - in fact,
I b*tched (and still do) about many gratuitous differences, but as I knew
that we needed something for "consumer" HW (which was bring driven by the
WINTEL economics), and I was willing to use the "lessor" technology (Linux)
because it was "good enough" and gave me what I needed (UNIX on a PC/386).
I thought (incorrectly) somehow original Linux's European authorship was
going to protect me and my fellow hackers ever though it was not as good as
my beloved BSD system.

Simple put - using Christiansen's theories:  Linux "won" because:

   - it was "good enough",
   - had a lot of people behind it that valued that was there and invested
   in making it "better", and
   - the economics of the platform (PC/386 - WINTEL etc) was on the fastest
   grow curve [and its Christiansen's economic disruption was displacing the
   Mini & Workstation].


BTW: at the time, I argued with the Roger Gourd and the OSF folks, that if
they released (sold) the OSF/1 RI uK which had not AT&T technology in it
(again thinking Copyright not Trade Secret); I was suggesting $100/copy
there was a market for it.  I just could not get them interested.

Sun has done the RoadRunner and had their 386 port of Solaris; but again.
All the "UNIX" folks were still interested in pushing out "iron" so were
blind to the WINTEL economic disruption.

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda .... sigh

Clem
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-02-21 15:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 100+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-02-21 12:02 Noel Chiappa
2017-02-21 12:24 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-02-21 12:57   ` Michael Kjörling
2017-02-21 15:02 ` Clem Cole [this message]
2017-02-22  1:50   ` Dan Cross
2017-02-22  2:25     ` Steve Nickolas
2017-02-22  3:11     ` Clem Cole
2017-02-22  4:07       ` Dan Cross
2017-02-22  4:17         ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-23 15:31           ` Nemo
2017-02-23 16:00             ` Clem Cole
2017-02-23 16:50               ` Nemo
2017-02-23 22:02               ` Dave Horsfall
2017-02-24  1:30                 ` Clem Cole
2017-02-24 20:54                   ` Dave Horsfall
2017-02-24  1:01               ` Jason Stevens
2017-02-22 10:16       ` jsteve
2017-02-21 15:15 ` Chet Ramey
2017-02-21 16:47 ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-21 18:58   ` Clem Cole
2017-02-21 19:21     ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-21 20:17       ` Clem Cole
2017-02-21 20:28       ` Steve Nickolas
2017-02-21 20:32         ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-21 22:58           ` Wesley Parish
2017-02-22  1:19             ` Clem Cole
2017-02-22  1:35               ` [TUHS] Sun NFS version 2.0 Arthur Krewat
2017-02-22  1:46                 ` Clem Cole
2017-02-22 13:33                   ` Arthur Krewat
2017-02-23 23:48                     ` Arthur Krewat
2017-02-24  7:47                       ` arnold
2017-02-22  2:07                 ` Cory Smelosky
2017-02-22 13:25                   ` Arthur Krewat
2017-02-22  3:17                 ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-22  8:43                   ` arnold
2017-02-24 20:57                 ` Warren Toomey
2017-02-24 22:09                   ` Warren Toomey
2017-02-26 10:50                   ` Josh Good
2017-02-22  9:00             ` [TUHS] Mach for i386 / Mt Xinu or other jsteve
2017-02-22  0:52   ` Andy Kosela
2017-02-22  1:04     ` ron minnich
2017-02-22  1:33       ` jason-tuhs
2017-02-22  3:18       ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-22  3:45         ` ron minnich
2017-02-22  4:06           ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-22  4:11             ` Larry McVoy
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-02-26 18:33 Norman Wilson
2017-02-28 20:26 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-02-22  3:51 Rudi Blom
2017-02-22  1:22 Rudi Blom
2017-02-22  3:08 ` Cory Smelosky
2017-02-21 21:49 Noel Chiappa
2017-02-21 23:10 ` Nick Downing
2017-02-21 23:14 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-02-21 16:25 Noel Chiappa
2017-02-21  4:16 Doug McIlroy
2017-02-20  6:38 Rudi Blom
2017-02-19  5:48 Jason Stevens
2017-02-17 16:55 Noel Chiappa
2017-02-17 20:04 ` Clem Cole
2017-02-17 15:47 Atindra Chaturvedi
2017-02-16  7:28 [TUHS] Mushi and Bagu Rudi Blom
2017-02-16  9:36 ` jsteve
2017-02-16 10:42   ` Nick Downing
2017-02-16 13:49     ` Rudi Blom
2017-02-17 11:30       ` [TUHS] Mach for i386 / Mt Xinu or other jsteve
2017-02-17 14:22         ` Clem Cole
2017-02-17 16:13           ` Chet Ramey
2017-02-17 14:29         ` Clem Cole
2017-02-17 17:23           ` Warner Losh
2017-02-18 22:25           ` Nemo
2017-02-19  6:20             ` jsteve
2017-02-19  7:01               ` Steve Nickolas
2017-02-19 13:46                 ` Jason Stevens
2017-02-19 15:44                   ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-20 18:14                     ` Joerg Schilling
2017-02-20 22:24                       ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-20 23:16                         ` Steve Johnson
2017-02-20 23:18                           ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-20 23:25                             ` Steve Johnson
2017-02-20 23:20                           ` Steve Nickolas
2017-02-21  0:12                             ` Wesley Parish
2017-02-21  1:05                               ` Steve Nickolas
2017-02-21 10:30                         ` Joerg Schilling
2017-02-21 13:47                           ` Random832
2017-02-21 15:18                             ` Joerg Schilling
2017-02-21 15:54                               ` Diomidis Spinellis
2017-02-21 16:38                                 ` Cory Smelosky
2017-02-21 16:48                                 ` Joerg Schilling
2017-02-21 16:32                               ` Random832
2017-02-21 16:55                                 ` Joerg Schilling
2017-02-21 17:10                                   ` Dan Cross
2017-02-21 19:44                                     ` Joerg Schilling
2017-02-21 21:17                                       ` Dan Cross
2017-02-21 21:37                           ` Larry McVoy
2017-02-22  8:57                             ` jsteve
2017-02-22  9:56                               ` Michael Kjörling
2017-02-22 10:26                                 ` jsteve
2017-02-22 10:29                               ` Joerg Schilling
2017-02-19 21:19               ` Clem Cole
2017-02-20  0:29                 ` Nick Downing
2017-02-20  1:58                   ` Clem Cole
2017-02-20  1:29                 ` Cory Smelosky
2017-02-19 22:59               ` Derek Fawcus

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