From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4761 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2022 22:59:26 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 16 Feb 2022 22:59:26 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 711DF9D044; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:59:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642CE9D036; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:59:08 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="gYj/nK7E"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A86AF9D036; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:57:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f48.google.com (mail-qv1-f48.google.com [209.85.219.48]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4B0F9D035 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:57:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f48.google.com with SMTP id x3so4883787qvd.8 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:57:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=w0oPs0maYS71HB/hjn0o4cfI7a1sn6Hv/A2pDLqHBN8=; b=gYj/nK7E+jKvCIDQQ9lwKWakXUQGhjPGGjBdM4KbWR3he7G9GsA//2RV9rW9GPZpLT G4Zj6m+yvLkqJwxhxptawEOC/5i1PFjOPycfXuJb5lyQcpzh/sEDUZ1G8b7kilQU93u+ 2g9AEur1uFzDkjnecnChFHSJLT0btf7vMP+bk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=w0oPs0maYS71HB/hjn0o4cfI7a1sn6Hv/A2pDLqHBN8=; b=d7/hLsAB0cw0WTyF5reppC9uXib28H5toe+s5KE2DVsB7VJkyD8TYuEVBBR5QYziDE ZknNcSMVpUoz+DVvYDzILT00gcVVWf9hLaZZ+6FzK5/pDFtMv8MyFPiAiieko301IgGe HUr8yUvKRuxPlnl9jeWzt5cyNJ0b6+CiBzqaY4HIyo0of0gEafhPW2jnCwdbQd6tjM4V vekRFF5xAY1mcme20DXSC4ErHDpPBPFy5yq2jEbloDRJbJqapJfJ5TtBblSR6k5Ptdrr rRfLrRsDMlvYRVL3tbyMkoZj7RQeov0FhwD9qOS+34YD0ugfhe1BW0FblOCXUuHoL415 tRvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530vA9uyjYKcWGjbSWA1eXZBjzgbbCERhHzSDzrs/MtmYEpQBQ3e yfnHBFnyz+8iAnxOpH8pSL0lbkQo/ylqs3r7nme37g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJya2wNmGWVm1tNkTtdXXY1l1Annzu2YQmuR2X3Iq1DNjXyfL5SLeEutcRrpkAeyO0umKyVn4Nbb4fiqh/hFVec= X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:54d:b0:2d9:6d84:c7d1 with SMTP id m13-20020a05622a054d00b002d96d84c7d1mr150018qtx.307.1645052220820; Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:57:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202202160754.21G7sbUa011318@freefriends.org> <1nKFRN-4IZ-00@marmaro.de> <8735kig8vb.fsf@vuxu.org> <20220216224254.GA3040@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20220216224254.GA3040@mcvoy.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:56:35 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000425a6905d82a91a6" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Lorinda Cherry X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000425a6905d82a91a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" And before that, Fortran compilers were known to recognize Whetstone. Mashey did his wonder talk called 'Lies, Damn Lies and Benchmarks' in the mid-80s which begat the SPEC suite. Wasn't perfect but it did help. Marketing people in particular like to grab a single number for 'goodness' just to try to show mine is better than yours (my current disgust has been the clock rate of the processors which sadly, my employer was one of the worst in using as a figure of merit). On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 5:44 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 09:27:39AM +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote: > > Indeed, when a lot of compilers recognised the Sieve of Eratosthenes > being > > used and optimised for it... Wasn't all that long ago that vehicle > > manufacturers also started doing the same thing :-) > > Indeed. I hated when people cheated because benchmarks should teach you > the capabilities of the machine being benchmarked. They aren't useful > if people cheat. > > When I did LMbench, the rules were "cc -O2" and you could not link with > any benchmarking libraries and you could only report a result if you > reported all results. > > I had a beef with this guy: https://www.cs.jhu.edu/~shap/ because he > had some toy OS that didn't have a VM system, didn't have networking, > didn't have much of anything, but boy oh boy, did it context switch > fast (because there was no context to speak of). He reported those > numbers in blatant violation of my rules and I had to escalate to > get him to stop. The bummer is he is a smart guy, capable of good > work, there is no need to cheat. > --000000000000425a6905d82a91a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And before that, Fortran compilers were known to recogn= ize Whetstone. =C2=A0 Mashey did his wonder talk called 'Lies, Damn Lie= s and Benchmarks' in the mid-80s which begat the SPEC suite.=C2=A0 Wasn= 't perfect but it did help. =C2=A0 =C2=A0Marketing people in particular= like to grab a single number for 'goodness' just to try to show mi= ne is better than yours (my current disgust has been the clock rate of the = processors which sadly, my employer=C2=A0was one of the worst in using as a= figure of merit).

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 5:44 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 09:27:39AM +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> Indeed, when a lot of compilers recognised the Sieve of Eratosthenes b= eing
> used and optimised for it...=C2=A0 Wasn't all that long ago that v= ehicle
> manufacturers also started doing the same thing :-)

Indeed.=C2=A0 I hated when people cheated because benchmarks should teach y= ou
the capabilities of the machine being benchmarked.=C2=A0 They aren't us= eful
if people cheat.

When I did LMbench, the rules were "cc -O2" and you could not lin= k with
any benchmarking libraries and you could only report a result if you
reported all results.

I had a beef with this guy: https://www.cs.jhu.edu/~shap/ because= he
had some toy OS that didn't have a VM system, didn't have networkin= g,
didn't have much of anything, but boy oh boy, did it context switch
fast (because there was no context to speak of).=C2=A0 He reported those numbers in blatant violation of my rules and I had to escalate to
get him to stop.=C2=A0 The bummer is he is a smart guy, capable of good
work, there is no need to cheat.
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