From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 1b5cd55b for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:40:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1C53B9C5F7; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 02:40:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20E19BFF4; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 02:40:19 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="HgOOeRpL"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 864A29BFF4; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 02:40:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f169.google.com (mail-qk1-f169.google.com [209.85.222.169]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACCF594B69 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 02:40:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f169.google.com with SMTP id g15so3863716qka.8 for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 08:40:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lCj2pqeaxKT5f0SJ+y/IXWZOYv23X88tp482aZ2ttpg=; b=HgOOeRpLeYGX26IO+TqY7ReEuOJI2LsZEBCg5p+2z/hbRxO81Ywo72mbZId9bmTMME GUsDmCgYDdZ2aOjlW/xk800aFxhCw+aqbFfDuWYGxuKocgoSvRVjo+KjhHiIGaIBiQzk C26N5FemIB4R4MUy2yV40MPSM9qs0sB5f1B8s= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lCj2pqeaxKT5f0SJ+y/IXWZOYv23X88tp482aZ2ttpg=; b=X97jtc5I9/X4HBuFaCvSZMKnNN5/Xx//w7p/3gBpiLSzaWT4PxHuwoJBqQVYFD/kEN T8Zz55JWyCVv3h8DM4AddbIcAhlHo0p401PVdqPHwGGeKjMENce48fYZO8ZJc8OS9MAZ qwEkdhgpfxbxqXfYJr+29zAE2trCsFVN3orSCx60JnpjpZa7nayCASmmHCMCCzR4K6t4 l4uP/1kzy0yBDeKxy+BA2Fqy5zYgTwVFlVipMAkL5xIBpGGH4k/kAzYqyKDZlz/JRInH wotB8tgs89Z3j7DQu80nVrfiDMUmgkIzGWINWUVI7D9EjCDcBJ6BDW4RtHyLrUXN2kkG 2K6g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU2rYMVZ2AwFSMRXt6pv3y9pwEMzwvomh1+hER7lI/w9jCZS6Ua LFZUFM6ifMQrUvSJHmtNyh3uKQuuJax6LS0tvySNTw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy8vDpNT+H4Ouk4J1yx1Dwq27GSQNmV+bY/VB8+hvULouURJ5KmFnSu6xukX18vMqeQd+OayA5/RKMKsnazWqg= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6346:: with SMTP id x67mr9392416qkb.476.1575564014324; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 08:40:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <698E9378-80A6-48F2-8B46-389B4A90ECD9@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: <698E9378-80A6-48F2-8B46-389B4A90ECD9@planet.nl> From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 11:39:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006524fd0598f7953e" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Origins of PPP X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000006524fd0598f7953e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable below... On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:42 AM Paul Ruizendaal wrote: > I=E2=80=99m looking for the origins of SLIP and PPP on Unix. Both seem to= have > been developed long before their RFC=E2=80=99s appeared. > This is true... > > As far as I can tell, SLIP originally appeared in 3COM=E2=80=99s UNET for= the > PDP11, around 1980. Sort of.... As the first customer for UNET I can verify that there was a serial interface that had been used to for debugging the SW until the 3C100 became stable. But it was not what we would later call SLIP. It was really not usable for much other than to debug the protocol. It did not have a 'chatting' and was for dedicated (hardwired) serial lines. As I remember it, the code mostly was used as a loopback between two TTY ports and IIRC it only worked on the DH11. I think Greg Shaw wrote it, but it might have been Bruce Borden (I can ask Bruce). Glaser and I set it up in lookback mode as we used it to A/B test the Hyperchannel code we wrote. My first experience with a real 'SLIP' as we later knew it was a distribution from Harvard/MIT in early the 1980s (83/84 IIRC but dates could be off). The code base took some major rework to the TTY driver, that I thought had originated at MIT. IIRC I got the sources from someone like Jack Test or somebody else working in Steve Ward's real-time lab (i.e. Terry Hayes/tjt may have brought the src with them); but we could have just has likely gotten them sob @ harvard. It ran on DH's as DZ'd were an issue because of interrupts as I remember (DZ's always were an issue when you pushed them). But, it must have originally worked on BSD 4.1 not 4/1C/4.2, which tells me it was hack off the original BBN code which did not use sockets, but rather the same open("/dev/tcp", ...) stuff that chaosnet used. But the times are fuzzy in my mind, so it's possible by the time we got it, worked with the UCB code sockets code base. I do remember that it ran on sockets by the time Steve Zimmerman hacked SLIP into RTU when he redid our TTY driver. The important thing is that the early version lacked PPPD, as we were later know it. > From the TUHS Unix tree, first appearance in BSD seems to be 4.3 (1986). > That's make sense. > > Not sure when PPP first appeared, but the linux man page for pppd has a > credit that goes back to Carnegie Mellon 1984. First appearance in BSD > seems to be FreeBSD 5.3 (2004), which seems improbably late (same source)= . > There were two or three different PPP schemes in the beginning. What was common was the SLIP line discipline code under the covers, but how the line got set up to start running it was different. The original SLIP 'kit' from Harvard/MIT lacked anything like PPPD to start and was sort of ad hoc. I think originally it used a program called 'chat' that had been pulled out uucico that set things up then exec'ed the SLIP stuff; but chat(1) may have been round 2 or 3. I've forgotten the name of the original daemon, I bet it you look in the Usenet archives from 82-84 and look for 'SLIP' you find a couple of things. The more modern pppd(1) coming from CMU is as likely as anywhere else. I did eventually run it at home on a FreeBSD box, but it was at least the second or third way I set up my dial-ip ISP connection. --0000000000006524fd0598f7953e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
below...

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5= :42 AM Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:
I= =E2=80=99m looking for the origins of SLIP and PPP on Unix. Both seem to ha= ve been developed long before their RFC=E2=80=99s appeared.
This is true...
=C2=A0

As far as I can tell, SLIP originally appeared in 3COM=E2=80=99s UNET for t= he PDP11, around 1980.
Sort of....=C2=A0 =C2=A0As the = first customer for UNET I can verify that there was a serial interface that= had been used to for debugging the SW until the 3C100 became stable.=C2=A0= =C2=A0But it was not what we would later call SLIP.=C2=A0 It was really no= t usable for much other=C2=A0than to debug the protocol.=C2=A0 It did not h= ave a 'chatting' and was for dedicated (hardwired) serial lines.=C2= =A0 As I remember it, the code mostly was used as a loopback between two TT= Y ports and IIRC it only worked on the DH11.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think Greg Shaw = wrote it, but it might have been Bruce Borden (I can ask Bruce).=C2=A0 =C2= =A0Glaser and I set it up in lookback mode as we used it to A/B test the Hy= perchannel code we wrote.

My first experience with a r= eal 'SLIP' as we later knew it was a distribution from Harvard/MIT = in early the 1980s=C2=A0(83/84 IIRC but dates could be off).=C2=A0 The code= base took=C2=A0some major rework to the TTY driver, that I thought had ori= ginated at MIT.=C2=A0 IIRC I got the sources from someone like Jack Test or= somebody else working in Steve Ward's real-time lab=C2=A0(i.e. Terry H= ayes/tjt may=C2=A0have brought the src with them); but we could have just h= as likely gotten them sob=C2=A0@ harvard.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It ran on DH's as= DZ'd were an issue because of interrupts as I remember (DZ's alway= s were an issue when you pushed them).=C2=A0 But, it must have originally w= orked on BSD 4.1 not 4/1C/4.2, which tells me it was hack off the original = BBN code which did not use sockets, but rather the same open("/dev/tcp= ", ...) stuff that chaosnet used.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But the times are fuzzy = in my mind, so it's possible by the time we got it, worked with the UCB= code sockets code base.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I do remember that it ran on sockets b= y the time Steve Zimmerman hacked SLIP into RTU when he redid our TTY drive= r.

The important thing is that the=C2=A0early version = lacked PPPD, as we were later know it.
=C2=A0
From the TUHS Unix tree, first appearance= in BSD seems to be 4.3 (1986).

Not sure when PPP first appeared, but the linux man page for pppd has a cre= dit that goes back to Carnegie Mellon 1984. First appearance in BSD seems t= o be FreeBSD 5.3 (2004), which seems improbably late (same source).
There were two or three different PPP schemes in the begin= ning.=C2=A0 What was common was the SLIP line discipline code under the cov= ers, but how the line got set up to start running it was different.=C2=A0 T= he original SLIP 'kit' from Harvard/MIT lacked anything like PPPD t= o start and was sort of ad hoc. I think originally it used a program called= 'chat' that had been pulled out uucico that set things up then exe= c'ed=C2=A0the SLIP stuff; but chat(1) may have been round 2 or 3.=C2=A0= =C2=A0I've forgotten the name of the original daemon, I bet it you loo= k in the Usenet archives from 82-84 and look for 'SLIP' you find a = couple of things.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The more modern pppd(1) coming from CM= U is as likely as anywhere else.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I did eventually run it at hom= e on a FreeBSD box, but it was at least the second or third way I set up my= dial-ip ISP connection.=C2=A0

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