From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21766 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2022 03:03:23 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Nov 2022 03:03:23 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9386640A05; Thu, 3 Nov 2022 13:02:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f45.google.com (mail-vs1-f45.google.com [209.85.217.45]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34ADF4010E for ; Thu, 3 Nov 2022 13:02:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f45.google.com with SMTP id k1so667239vsc.13 for ; Wed, 02 Nov 2022 20:02:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6XHdTONDPVNAiGSWBAHuVSsdghSwKUB6eDI4oDgQJL8=; b=bJ0fB/r8xcoXk/QVdw16BqbtznxvIHNc1aYQW4cyOGnQ4tuZrr8TO5BVKtPt+2+hPn WogSvY5mLLeBjggN21/qLuzao4tmuCHAUPNR5r5rZkO2JQCh5r4o7x1nTHOL7btPm80/ iJ0PFH4TVa+VDS5ZYgb0ErhweYlUSZ1DtpR5g= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6XHdTONDPVNAiGSWBAHuVSsdghSwKUB6eDI4oDgQJL8=; b=XnKQftupgp63XUm8v7pI6r4ggAwOiiO4GXMpdkFXFUPHPW97PAS/raaWv4M+zzOEKW reb98GoGe7DPPxg7WpwzmrMnAVmcsBcfnf3dOngPv5b74IbyknIz6FM78JoRbLZfzTkt 0wYOAuHPt4FL050rRpSu2pBFaAMiieWvAaHKd5c0Itrjp5eQ8poqAEzA0HwAqBjKEJU3 V63F/7lsPTFxxFpfFuCBc25rIc3F+c41NQPBjThXvCAn8X7NAFmtnIPmP/y7AqOCsDA4 0S+fZnUdRWVQkwJCjvB73EgYVh5Q4P6oz3yjvtpDkfjTz0OZw7jjr7oSmnyWAwDGT5rA NC2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1aySEhbvpe0wAjV8xvOkENnT1TpraYVcINhHdSOw/c3zD4mYvH Ge8tebQADjs8mP956lA0meCjNM/DHS3ZrQIwez8ChQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM4s/kmPdumvWpkdepKcXkkQtzuz8hLa6nNt9hxztDaWeaBpJKVoYrEBRBWOtQ8cUjZNulNQg4pCktkfdok8bLI= X-Received: by 2002:a67:d590:0:b0:3aa:4adb:c391 with SMTP id m16-20020a67d590000000b003aa4adbc391mr15243870vsj.17.1667444499899; Wed, 02 Nov 2022 20:01:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2022 23:01:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: Ronald Natalie Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000019801405ec882d23" Message-ID-Hash: KJHT43NX3QBHJHKFVZWESRTZDC2YND5A X-Message-ID-Hash: KJHT43NX3QBHJHKFVZWESRTZDC2YND5A X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS , steve jenkin X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Early Unix and Keyboard Skills List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000019801405ec882d23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The 33 and 28 needed at least two null chars after the or it would lose chars as there was no buffering. The Unix driver has the CR delay modes to support it. It=E2=80=99s UART as it were was mechanical and a rea= l work of art. I remember spending a few hours trying to figure out how it worked. As for the LA120 yeah you really needed to use real flow control which could be a problem on DL11s and DZs ports. SW flow was less than prefect. However, the Able version of the DH supported flow in hardware (RTS/CTS style) so you could set them to interface with the host at 960cps and then print as fast as possible swiping back and forth on the paper as the local microprocessor in the decwritter buffered everything. On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 9:48 PM Ronald Natalie wrote: > I=E2=80=99m not sure the model 33 required a carriage return delay. At = 110 baud > it had plenty of time to move the carriage. back. > Other printers (especially faster ones) weren=E2=80=99t so lucky, but the= LA36 > decwriter had a catchup mode to print the backlog after a return. > The LA120 was boustrophedonic so returns weren=E2=80=99t as much of an is= sue. > > ------ Original Message ------ > From "John P. Linderman" > To jason-tuhs@shalott.net > Cc "steve jenkin" ; "TUHS" > Date 11/2/2022 12:20:12 PM > Subject [TUHS] Re: Early Unix and Keyboard Skills > > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 3:02 PM wrote: > >> >> > I=E2=80=99ve never heard anyone mention keyboard skills with the peopl= e of the >> > CSRC - doesn=E2=80=99t anyone know? >> >> >> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V05.4.pdf (p23) >> >> > History tells us that the guys who designed [UNIX] did their own typin= g >> > into the machine. It seems to me that because of this, the main reaso= n >> > that UNIX enjoys/suffers from terse input and output is not through an= y >> > intellectual design decisions made at some early stage but because the >> > UNIX designers were just bad typists working on slow peripherals. >> >> >> -Jason >> > > Mostly rampant speculation on my part, but with 110 baud modems, 10 > characters per second right?, > and added delays for carriage returns, it was the peripherals that > encouraged brevity. Code would be > viewed multiple times, but entered roughly once. > > -- Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual --00000000000019801405ec882d23 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The 33 and 28 needed at least two null chars after the &l= t;CR> or it would lose chars as there was no buffering.=C2=A0 The Unix d= river has the CR delay modes to support it.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s UART as it w= ere was mechanical and a real work of art. =C2=A0 I remember spending a few= hours trying to figure out how it worked. =C2=A0=C2=A0

As for the LA120 yeah you really needed to = use real flow control which could be a problem on DL11s and DZs ports. =C2= =A0 SW flow was less than prefect.=C2=A0 However, the Able version of the D= H supported flow in hardware (RTS/CTS style) so you could set them to inter= face with the host at 960cps and then print as fast as possible swiping bac= k and forth on the paper as the local microprocessor in the decwritter buff= ered everything. =C2=A0

On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 9:48 PM Ronald Natalie= <ron@ronnatalie.com> wrote= :
I=E2=80=99m not sure the model 33 requ= ired a carriage return delay. =C2=A0 At 110 baud it had plenty of time to m= ove the carriage. back.
Other printers (especially faster ones) w= eren=E2=80=99t so lucky, but the LA36 decwriter had a catchup mode to print= the backlog after a return.
The LA120 was boustrophedonic so ret= urns weren=E2=80=99t as much of an issue.

------ Original Message ------
From "John P. Linderman" <jpl.jpl@gmail.com>
Cc "steve jenkin" <sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au>; "TUHS" = <tuhs@tuhs.org>= ;
Date 11/2/2022 12:20:12 PM
Subject [TUHS] Re: Early Unix and Keyboard Skills



On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 3:02 PM <jason-tuhs@shalott.net> = wrote:

> I=E2=80=99ve never heard anyone mention keyboard skills with the peopl= e of the
> CSRC - doesn=E2=80=99t anyone know?


https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documen= tation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V05.4.pdf (p23)

> History tells us that the guys who designed [UNIX] did their own typin= g
> into the machine.=C2=A0 It seems to me that because of this, the main = reason
> that UNIX enjoys/suffers from terse input and output is not through an= y
> intellectual design decisions made at some early stage but because the=
> UNIX designers were just bad typists working on slow peripherals.


=C2=A0 -Jason

Mostly rampant speculation on my part, but with 11= 0 baud modems, 10 characters per second right?,
and added delays for carriage returns, it = was the peripherals that encouraged brevity. Code would be
viewed multiple times, but ent= ered roughly once.
--
Sent from a handheld expect more t= ypos than usual
--00000000000019801405ec882d23--