From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21351 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2023 17:57:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Jan 2023 17:57:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB3D42477; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 03:56:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f52.google.com (mail-vs1-f52.google.com [209.85.217.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2A1342473 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 03:56:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f52.google.com with SMTP id a64so26063784vsc.2 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 09:56:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eRFrFZwbyqowzqzxu7u1cxL76TqUcGmfzJlLnWJT4Mg=; b=lWtd4AyHgNByogw+1kr+RNNHpjTZvN/uQjKS4DLbs6D4K5GpRmVVXUNczKpIi3t91c NixqI6wRDnnn/YEOoHVO0sE3/ZFwn1kCtdrC5iz/Joi2/dp23hdLh7zJwHMcBINkfeWm a3uc4EF0ii8RLYJH2S3BNWYbPEFrdoJakWPcA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=eRFrFZwbyqowzqzxu7u1cxL76TqUcGmfzJlLnWJT4Mg=; b=4CnSa0qFtaLuIGbPjMUj/lSW5RliB+6wglCtqU3WIjTK3uh2K+/SkcQybpQF+IXI0G nZJCiC7Azn0gzl1yxCwAyv/uVAGpJRY5kF6XtMu0CVCX8s/lN1nU6y+8AG8RaAKv3ly+ 8hcoJLSKMY3/1s6ZUb3PNbhsUex4lZetnPAol8klL68TJsciPd2tghkmgD/2a+dcLDP8 bmk+c/8Be68ut2O8+Qf3mRoHfNB4lntfIA65GL7wNSih5IJNdZS5SXhEv8tSpPI2Yk7X nKeBTiODT4gZ1rZzejWWDqOl3geB7O1uWIJ5njMY9m0MUzdCxmAR4ETETnV+ihl58ELX gVSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kopWwNAup7VQsspS2KcGrCtMqxTPvhcFsB9N9drqyoODfD7TNvc nhQHYfpC8xK+RbdcTeGvaxL58Wfgs0iuuRDfDNrhzvhXg/bJq+PuGbM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXs8WJxO3gthEeIHRcYKpaL1Rhs/gDBgTO7L34u0silC4Lwt/OzB+RztD0NKfTezEs3icm1L+MS3HgP8/J7FppM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:2227:b0:3b5:25d7:ecf6 with SMTP id d7-20020a056102222700b003b525d7ecf6mr3712112vsb.52.1672682132553; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 09:55:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <464819f0-d2f6-2a60-6481-a194f4428b4d@case.edu> <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> <88f83b4c-b3f9-ed87-b2fa-560fb369742a@makerlisp.com> <20221231035931.GG5825@mcvoy.com> <528f0c53-ccc2-88a1-5a7b-120362c648dd@mhorton.net> <20230102165120.GK25547@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20230102165120.GK25547@mcvoy.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 12:55:06 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000055651e05f14ba8e2" Message-ID-Hash: GME76QCKUM6RZ372SN4PJZY4UES7KFJZ X-Message-ID-Hash: GME76QCKUM6RZ372SN4PJZY4UES7KFJZ X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000055651e05f14ba8e2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 11:51 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > I think it is less of an issue today but if I were still supporting a mul= ti > platform product, I'd still insist on it. > Yep, and it's so easy to do. It's just a discipline. @Adam I helped create POSIX, so I get it. But Larry nailed it. It is just cheaper and easier to be disciplined and stick with Bourne for your scripts. *Teach your people the skills and you save time and money in the long run.* It's that simple. As Larry says, you never know and the problem is - when it happens, it tends to happen on a short leash. If you have been disciplined, it's a non-problem. It's really not that hard to use the V7 syntax. Everything you want/need to do is there. BTW: At Intel, a couple of years back (less than 3-5 years ago) we had a site where we needed things to work on a specific target that was, shall we say 'a bit custom' - V7 syntax was just fine for the installer - boy folks were happy a few of us had been on their case to get rid of the bashism the Millenials had tried to add (I'm not really sure POSIX.2 would have been good enough -- maybe - but Bourne was fine]. FWIW: In my start-up times, under the same rules of being disciplined, as VP of Engineering, I insisted, all C and C++ code was required to 'flex-e-lint' warning clean. I gave my folks a 3-week week slip to clean everything up. I was cursed during that time. But guess what, the outstanding bug list dropped to =E2=85=92 of what it had been. Created qui= te a few true believers. And we made those 3 weeks back before we were done. Clem =E1=90=A7 --00000000000055651e05f14ba8e2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 11:51= AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wr= ote:
I think it = is less of an issue today but if I were still supporting a multi= platform product, I'd still insist on it.=C2=A0=C2=A0
=
Yep, and it's=C2=A0so easy to do.=C2=A0 It's just a discip= line.=C2=A0 @Adam I helped create POSIX, so I get it.=C2=A0
But Larry nailed it.=C2=A0 It is just cheaper and easier=C2=A0to be di= sciplined and stick with Bourne for your scripts.=C2=A0 Teach your pe= ople the skills=C2=A0and you save time and money in the long run.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0It's that simple.=C2=A0 As Larry says, you never know and = the problem is - when it happens, it tends to happen on a short leash.=C2= =A0 If you have been disciplined,=C2=A0it's a non-problem.=C2=A0 It'= ;s really not that hard to use the V7 syntax.=C2=A0 Everything you want/nee= d to do is there.

BTW: At Intel, a couple of years bac= k (less than 3-5 years ago)=C2=A0 we had a site=C2=A0where we needed things= to work on a specific target that was, shall we say 'a bit custom'= - V7 syntax was just fine for the installer - boy folks were=C2=A0happy a = few of us had been on their=C2=A0case to=C2=A0get rid of the bashism the Mi= llenials had tried to add (I'm not really sure POSIX.2 would have been = good enough -- maybe - but Bourne was fine].

FWIW: In my start-up=C2=A0times, under the same rul= es of being disciplined, as VP of Engineering, I insisted, all C and C++ co= de was required=C2=A0to=C2=A0 'flex-e-lint' warning clean.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0I gave my folks a 3-week week slip to clean everything up.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0I was cursed during that time.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But guess what, the outstandi= ng bug list dropped to =E2=85=92 of what it had been.=C2=A0 Created quite a= few true believers.=C2=A0 And we made those 3 weeks back before we were do= ne.

Clem


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