From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25457 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2023 20:07:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Aug 2023 20:07:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D4440FF2; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 06:07:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vk1-xa34.google.com (mail-vk1-xa34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a34]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A30C40FC9 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 06:07:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vk1-xa34.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-48d165bd108so46549e0c.0 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 13:07:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1693426047; x=1694030847; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/IcPWNGO1Yx1rxoZZGOE1c52wL+pt3EPsT0tQBvQMhY=; b=hmYzQl8IdCDB7I+Qv5QzdEXc6gTes0GK87CkMdJix4hb5sJSD1nIjWgDaRQZ0hCpuB cX4ksVWJuzQOsMkI4e6HZRKlEVJtemmNazH4PZbxQqzL2JF9pkyzV0FZmX+nJJ0vx6Lb y5GvmKodk52MzAoa/avAK3YmA9288kHptlCxM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693426047; x=1694030847; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=/IcPWNGO1Yx1rxoZZGOE1c52wL+pt3EPsT0tQBvQMhY=; b=IlKZF+vnapNxaPYWXd7SNmXplolmkkcrSfpIKfLy2kXsDBGDCEXWKzdre/mlHyq6E8 WpCngUFNlYwe3j/NkEeLpB/wAvZqmQdqouHwLoJ//4PMpxMheQ62HSTVowD6uj+AvaxU FHjOyHsm68ifmck8xD9M+LoIQAYsDDT0MGUcCjbgI15+ZE/GciikC51yMfXvDorLl0Yw F4WjNTabQEyoohDLWuWKoc8y7hlAkAo6GEEMymtw8XaimS//yf6Rsnc0iFwRMtM292O+ Uwjxc17sm/JITdur5mUThmYAAzkwsy00S67DSNTpJXtMkHdOt3GWqkEVhJA1uXkWkZTY we6A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxzsysLtqV+xGP3McGl5GlmyFM/dvPkWBOxau0GNJHKBIYZNPK1 rdVVg8gv3sxgxO7CKtu/gD7ztMT221htybxB+WKMwA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFXmaIMW3aBfWdbmTyW58b+SbrlOL12pySV/ADWZN11dik3vH44ap3RthK3wk506qB5GzsDOzjjZqiP+0PxUM8= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:c444:0:b0:48d:c23:ec85 with SMTP id u65-20020a1fc444000000b0048d0c23ec85mr2900592vkf.2.1693426047009; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 13:07:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202308282303.37SN3FVJ034316@ultimate.com> <202308301921.37UJLHng001920@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: <202308301921.37UJLHng001920@freefriends.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 16:06:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: arnold@skeeve.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fc632306042979b4" Message-ID-Hash: JLP3DAEEH72KRKEKIRIVJE375EKMR57Q X-Message-ID-Hash: JLP3DAEEH72KRKEKIRIVJE375EKMR57Q X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: ken.unix.guy@gmail.com, tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: 3bsd tape image List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000fc632306042979b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable below... On Wed, Aug 30, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM wrote: > IIRC that was developed after 4.3 was released by Arthur David Olsen > (elsie!ado), and then incorporated into 4.3 via the patches that CSRG > sent out periodically. > You are probably right .. better memory. I knew it became widespread in a BSD stream, but I did not realize it was donated to CSRG. Thanks. But the key point is that the timezone DB development and inclusion in UNIX systems was much, much later in UNIX time and long after 1984 /usr/group standard, where the use of the TZ variable began to spread to make it easier for end users. As Phil and I pointed out to Ken's original question, the V7-based systems compiled the TZ info (number of minutes west of GMT) into the kernel and supported a couple of primarily USA-based TZs in time(3) and the like. Which makes changing it for the local user a tad more complicated. Then again, you had the sources in those days, and at least the system administrator recompiled the core kernel from scratch. [I remember Joy once saying he thought rebuilding the entire system from the source at each site was a good thing because that way, binaries were not stale]. Anyway, the placing of the TZ string into a program's environment was pushed by the UNIX vendors, of course, because they were not releasing binaries. Thus, by the time of the TZ=3DxSTdyDT convention, the time(3) family was a bit more flexible [*i.e.,* most of Europe was easily supported] - but you still needed to know what to set it all to. It was only much later, when the timezone DB code was created, that it became easy to set the timezone in a more worldwide scheme. =E1=90=A7 --000000000000fc632306042979b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
below...

On Wed, Aug 30, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
IIRC that was developed after 4.3 was release= d by Arthur David Olsen
(elsie!ado), and then incorporated into 4.3 via the patches that CSRG
sent out periodically.
You are= probably right=C2=A0.. better memory. I knew it became wid= espread in a BSD stream, but I did not realize it was donated to CSRG.
Thanks.
=

But the=C2=A0key point is that the timezone DB development and inclusio= n in UNIX systems was much, much later in UNIX time and long after 1984 /us= r/group standard, where the use of the TZ variable began to spread to make = it easier for end users.

As Phil and I pointed = out to=C2=A0Ken's original question, the V7-based systems compiled the = TZ info (number of minutes west of GMT) into the kernel and supported a cou= ple of primarily USA-based TZs in time(3) and the like.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Which m= akes changing it for the local user a tad more complicated.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The= n again, you had the sources in those days, and at least the system adminis= trator recompiled the core kernel from scratch. [I remember=C2=A0Joy once s= aying he thought rebuilding the entire system from the source at each site = was a good thing because that way, binaries were not stale].

Anyway= , the placing of the TZ string into a program's=C2=A0environment was pu= shed by the UNIX vendors, of course, because they were not releasing binari= es.
Thus, by the time of the TZ=3DxS= TdyDT convention, the time(3) family was a bit more flexible [i.e., = most of Europe was easily supported] - but you still needed to know what to= set it all to.=C2=A0=C2=A0

It was only much later,=C2=A0when=C2= =A0the timezone DB code was created, that it became easy to set the timezon= e in a more worldwide scheme.


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