From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 14590 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2021 22:06:23 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Mar 2021 22:06:23 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B537B9CA6B; Sun, 7 Mar 2021 08:06:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E357C9CA6D; Sun, 7 Mar 2021 08:06:06 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="mmLvB45l"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C13AA9CA6D; Sun, 7 Mar 2021 08:06:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f47.google.com (mail-qv1-f47.google.com [209.85.219.47]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6633A9CA6B for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2021 08:06:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f47.google.com with SMTP id 2so2856958qvd.0 for ; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 14:06:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yqI2yB6GPpsp+GoiSyw7yk7ZeytUqv2C5Goiq8Atfgk=; b=mmLvB45lNtwCvBK6yzi+2TOiJcQf/W30J1YZkYjP8covTKkgaz+aucCpG0XI3qB9Du e/14/koLQ1bKHTVUPTkX/+96eR+8VMn1Akw02+uhSWsn3VIHANzJY5rkj4N0fkiPANRh jkfm0h0e+IUH+IcPI6+JWF3IXyJEdoP41qQrc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yqI2yB6GPpsp+GoiSyw7yk7ZeytUqv2C5Goiq8Atfgk=; b=VopSMRZgl2UtLf4b1ko9kB9Z4Pz/zhZ1zFWzy08vuPkd/q7yJz5dLu869dSgx7W62F LCyFFeTjL/cHL575hwxC32YTJ4Zq/ArY8beoKfOctcXRaMBzlc+cXOo3e2wiCy7eoQyq q1njxaNS2EIjA5S85fKl8Ezy9mClRw4f1Sgefc6l8SiCmKf9coG9TrR3pxlSmRCl2sNu XGEju5dcPozRdgfWlgNWJIm4BFyOZ7muIeGfK5PebPfxeuJbxU8675GhCQc330BXn1/T rC42IYgRRIsIZmE77uvsN6gh2H813z+LOz9G0q6Eru3b4AgAFK3blg0RDnqLPPgdjDfP e9Kw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530aaUfR1iNolw/txpOZrRWiL+gjQGQosW1DZxbiWPmIzJJp4UKl Zvz2knKvrMzlAvutJUvyGcx5URQKMruRpL2+LpWmRsiMJL3pXA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwlAh1hahPY2oSJ2Pa9BQQRnxaCspNC22DfSwUaJrbcWu2bdkoLmPfxNYilPVzzP1a47axe74HT6HqaN0BIkj8= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:c488:: with SMTP id u8mr15011425qvi.9.1615068363516; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 14:06:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202103041831.124IVZTj018003@freefriends.org> <604133A6.8070101@gmail.com> <25705.1614938294@hop.toad.com> <20210306213811.GF1054@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20210306213811.GF1054@mcvoy.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2021 17:05:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000187f7905bce568b3" Subject: Re: [TUHS] tabs vs spaces - entab, detab X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000187f7905bce568b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 4:38 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Sun, Mar 07, 2021 at 08:31:57AM +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote: > > (Straying into COFF territory here) > > > > On Fri, 5 Mar 2021, John Gilmore wrote: > > > > >The one that got me was make(1). Being used to text editors that used > > >"tab" as a command rather than a literal character, I proposed a fix > early > > >on at Sun that would allow leading spaces as well as tabs in Makefiles= . > > >(I think this was in the Unisoft Unix days, pre-BSD.) Bill Shannon > > >actually put it into their source tree. But in a few days or weeks, h= e > > >took it back out, because he realized that Makefiles built on Suns usi= ng > > >leading spaces wouldn't work anywhere else. > > > > I loathe make's distinguishment between tabs and spaces; they look the > same > > on the screen, and last I looked computers are supposed to serve humans > and > > not the other way around. > > Has anyone asked Stu Feldman why make wanted a tab? Or does anyone know? > I have to believe there was a better reason than it was one tab vs > 8 spaces. > According to Eric Raymond in Chapter 15. Tools: make: Automating Your Recipes", *The Art of Unix Programming* *Why the tab in column 1? Yacc was new, Lex was brand new. I hadn't tried either, so I figured this would be a good excuse to learn. After getting myself snarled up with my first stab at Lex, I just did something simple with the pattern newline-tab. It worked, it stayed. And then a few weeks later I had a user population of about a dozen, most of them friends, and I didn't want to screw up my embedded base. The rest, sadly, is history.* *=E2=80=94 Stuart Feldman* =E1=90=A7 --000000000000187f7905bce568b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 4:38 = PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wro= te:
On Sun, Mar = 07, 2021 at 08:31:57AM +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> (Straying into COFF territory here)
>
> On Fri, 5 Mar 2021, John Gilmore wrote:
>
> >The one that got me was make(1).=C2=A0 Being used to text editors = that used
> >"tab" as a command rather than a literal character, I pr= oposed a fix early
> >on at Sun that would allow leading spaces as well as tabs in Makef= iles.
> >(I think this was in the Unisoft Unix days, pre-BSD.)=C2=A0 Bill S= hannon
> >actually put it into their source tree.=C2=A0 But in a few days or= weeks, he
> >took it back out, because he realized that Makefiles built on Suns= using
> >leading spaces wouldn't work anywhere else.
>
> I loathe make's distinguishment between tabs and spaces; they look= the same
> on the screen, and last I looked computers are supposed to serve human= s and
> not the other way around.

Has anyone asked Stu Feldman why make wanted a tab?=C2=A0 Or does anyone kn= ow?
I have to believe there was a better reason than it was one tab vs
8 spaces.
According to Eri= c Raymond in=C2=A0= Chapter 15. Tools:= make: Automating Your Recipes",=C2=A0The Art of Unix Programming<= /div>
=

Why th= e tab in column 1?=C2=A0Yacc=C2= =A0was new,=C2=A0Lex=C2=A0was brand new. I hadn't tried either, so I figured this w= ould be a good excuse to learn. After getting myself snarled up with my fir= st stab at Lex, I just did something simple with the pattern newline-tab. I= t worked, it stayed. And then a few weeks later I had a user population of = about a dozen, most of them friends, and I didn't want to screw up my e= mbedded base. The rest, sadly, is history.

=E2=80= =94=E2=80=89Stuart Feldman
=E1=90=A7
--000000000000187f7905bce568b3--