From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23719 invoked from network); 26 May 2020 14:45:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 26 May 2020 14:45:14 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5CBF49C83C; Wed, 27 May 2020 00:45:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F0B9C6B4; Wed, 27 May 2020 00:44:48 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="rCkvd+Ny"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 80AC09C6B4; Wed, 27 May 2020 00:44:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f169.google.com (mail-qt1-f169.google.com [209.85.160.169]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17C3493D53 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 00:44:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f169.google.com with SMTP id x29so3078263qtv.4 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 07:44:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zXh+Z9/P/HrCDSk308UnBAGN/rSe4ooaZ2864ESYVoc=; b=rCkvd+NyRPU958SAmz2lgghaGqfMnl+uk0IYOXWURSG/AVhwqBXj94/40iqAN08xm+ cn8UfuxSnj4Yiyr8nCdoU9VXdnV8D89wl1uNm/rvpW7nes3+i3DcrLbGG7M6vfzv0pl7 UdCmj6p/iy2Pe4B1VT+CodJxLIHlfdYrRBEL8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zXh+Z9/P/HrCDSk308UnBAGN/rSe4ooaZ2864ESYVoc=; b=c8bXTsti3IyAtOZ0TEKKFq/3ACyXb1qEly3hm33vWWiQLQtfOW23suo5MMtcPDnG1/ h7nIQzq1XbxC4yd/9u2GrO30DkX9rNygNDWG6ioplYiLckoIddYqwKiojyGksp83ytYo mlcGtzc+sRRbRO0yd9ZQZjC9gUR7r1pLhH3Ac6wvDFPSo1LVwqXzis7TXlQH+7Sl08Sr AHzcB+2S/ro/M03hdy1zNh1JzWsfmWC5/OdksAPFgp4iz2AAX55touzGGuHJub0ZsGuz 7yc+K4MqwSZnFODr9DpqLL2r57f9ea733Z3mv+azZaHVZ2mjicktWkgPuXKtm9aECKbK kurw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53360hi1vWFTRysCk/hP3wpYpsaIdw2KTHYpyyTkIqdivtMxyeWo jIqBYaNT677KOZbQpYvzNLo7w9XPyECEoMeTt09qbw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzDL9BjTozQLh3Pz8eJlpc2vJ55uiDonDQTvnH3drY5JRAo/bGW4v+IfLcR48O1OnJGr2hbwX7BYnJojSk2al8= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4448:: with SMTP id m8mr1653590qtn.4.1590504284859; Tue, 26 May 2020 07:44:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8a2e9b1b-8890-a783-5b53-c8480c070f2e@telegraphics.com.au> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 10:44:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: Rob Pike Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e9c70505a68e228b" Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000e9c70505a68e228b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:23 AM Rob Pike wrote: > The peculiar input semantics of Pascal are a consequence of a locally > hacked-up version of NOS (I think that's the name) that ran on the big CDC > machines at ETH in Zurich. It was entirely a card-based system then, and > the way Pascal required read-ahead worked perfectly on that system, but not > really on any other, including other card-based, even NOS systems. > Yep, NOS was always a real mess. The ASCII vs 6-bit Display code got mixed up in this too, IIRC. But again, if you think of Pascal as a teaching language under a batch system, where the student tosses in her/his program and some data to run against it. The batch queue eventually picks up your 'job', tries to compile the code, and if successful will run the executable it once on your input deck - a small light comes on. Yeah it does that just fine and it is a pretty simple model. BTW: a number of those local NOS hacks were to make the system easier to use with student batch files. I think it was Ward Cunningham that told me in the late 1970s, ETH got some of those NOS hacks from Purdue - Ward had been working in the Purdue computer center and he sent the CDC tape to them (remember Purdue was late to the Arpanet and I do not ETH was one of the few places in Europe that had connections). Sending mag tapes via mail or maybe FedEx/DHL was pretty standard in those days. Particularly within Universities, shops with the same hardware and/or OS tended to share a lot of tricks and solutions to issues. FWIW: that particular 6500 from Purdue is now at the LCM+L in Seattle. --000000000000e9c70505a68e228b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:23= AM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com= > wrote:
The peculiar input semantics of Pascal are a consequence of a = locally hacked-up version of NOS (I think that's the name) that ran on = the big CDC machines at ETH in Zurich. It was entirely a card-based system = then, and the way Pascal required read-ahead worked perfectly on that syste= m, but not really on any other, including other card-based, even NOS system= s.
Yep, NOS was always a real mess.=C2=A0 =C2=A0= The ASCII vs 6-bit Display code got mixed up in this too, IIRC.=C2=A0 But a= gain, if you think of Pascal as a teaching language under a batch system, w= here the student tosses in=C2=A0her/his program and some data t= o run against it.=C2=A0 The batch queue eventually picks up your 'job&#= 39;, tries to compile the code, and if successful will run the executable i= t once on your input deck - a small light comes on.=C2=A0 Yeah it does that= just fine and it is a pretty simple model.

BTW: a number of those local NOS hacks were to make the sys= tem easier to use with student batch files.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think it was Ward= Cunningham that told me in the late 1970s, ETH got some of those NOS hacks= from Purdue - Ward had been working in the Purdue computer center and he s= ent the CDC tape to them (remember Purdue was late to the Arpanet and I do = not ETH was one of the few places in Europe that had connections).=C2=A0 Se= nding mag tapes via mail or maybe FedEx/DHL was pretty standard in those da= ys.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Particularly=C2=A0within Universities, shops with the same= hardware and/or OS tended to share a lot of tricks and solutions to issues= .

FWIW:=C2=A0 that particular 6500 from = Purdue is now at the LCM+L in Seattle.

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