From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 436 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2022 21:39:10 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 10 Oct 2022 21:39:10 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C21240EE6; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 07:38:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f46.google.com (mail-vs1-f46.google.com [209.85.217.46]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1C7840EE5 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2022 07:38:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f46.google.com with SMTP id 128so6019755vsz.12 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2022 14:38:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=oxlnxn6ExvnUDALMRDmGfk75FZrkoQe+MAg8ABEzc/4=; b=OzvwU9Z9x5fgT+rHOGwGDSNuID9SCbIuznk/B1cUl/kb05qcjc7bzFA9QcbOrMBg5+ UdvhcSc4kLgiV/1JKd8Js+zDz6MMTtkA7GjvoW4ryKFNIUWCvBjP5qYHxmUG3wttrM2r pIaMVmINzzNMDyxsLu1O554i1SX7iSUftCeAg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=oxlnxn6ExvnUDALMRDmGfk75FZrkoQe+MAg8ABEzc/4=; b=SibYYK+6+eyyHyjOMljr3MJISmXZNlyvMsN7LGwWLMzyo+oAG4GSxa85BIyN8kaIMj RUiMtiAL+3YoDavAKjpspludw2o+fiwhwzSNzq+91QIctGmn53Cb9CRqqqXVquZxMQU/ GgUwB0xXHBbP+hE+gJY2sOQI7LCb8EHu5Y+jaRdLSOeT2VbPfDRtA4ba912Ds3QmxJ6r uoQqgaoPePaD+pzTMkFaUiAlvsLMD2tt/qOOVxXI5bDQ2K01lA0AJJ/tM0EHIfnUJtHG Rrhv2tx56UDhpEdBIisx+tfzWInkDDVsZ59Sih9LvXHoFxPqrPZFXiL1RKoobi1J5fc8 YShg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf0ZbTcaftDUanpWCfWBgI/Y7uD1MjUEKS/10bEkE+1nCPNBmizD c1rJ01gIlHS81mY4zwW7b1OejRS9qK5pMTnAeC2wFAXRKC0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM43Vm5NZtmsP+Olj2BAXDk/n4swUXSb8ecSNywI6x1EXbti4+fuoL7s1CIysE8tQ9/LG08AHYNwSnz0B67cDHU= X-Received: by 2002:a67:a449:0:b0:39a:d4f5:f3f1 with SMTP id p9-20020a67a449000000b0039ad4f5f3f1mr9934378vsh.17.1665437848955; Mon, 10 Oct 2022 14:37:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:37:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: Michael Casadevall Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000062020b05eab4f77b" Message-ID-Hash: PCPCMWBTTA4WF4ASYFSML7FM53NPWWJS X-Message-ID-Hash: PCPCMWBTTA4WF4ASYFSML7FM53NPWWJS X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Attempting To Build NOSC and BBN UNIXs + ARPANET code List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000062020b05eab4f77b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 4:49 PM Michael Casadevall wrote: > > There are SCCS references in the code from 78/79, references to the V7 CC > compiler and updates. > The 'V7 compiler' is 'Typesetter C' - it was released two compiler DWB on V6. SCCS had a interesting life. > SCCS was introduced publicly with PWB, > Indeed. > which is why I suspect it might have been used. > It might have been at MIT (it was a UCB and CMU BTW) - but I believe Al Nemeth - while it might have been a person disk, -- I'm pretty sure BBN would have tried to kept those bits out of the building. - certainly out of the mainstream of any project -- you see in the directories foo.c and foo.c~ files -- this was typical of the day. If you were using SCCS less you would see a lot more evidence in the trees (again look at the UCB trees - you can see once Ken brought it to UCB, wnj started to use it). > The code also uses some C syntax the stock compiler dislikes > (specifically, it was unhappy register in the function declaration). > As I said -- I suspect the typesetter compiler by then. If userspace code is using and linking libS.a not Mike Lesk's portable I/O library that's a huge clue also BTW. But Dennis did a lot of work to the compiler in the DWB timeframe. A number of language features were added, he changed the syntax of things like =3D+ to +=3D and the like. This is w= hy code that targets the Typesetter C compiler has a very difficult time going back to the V6 (or basic PWB 1.0) compilers. As I said in the other message, this was the compiler he and Brian describe in the book - also note a couple of us here reviewed different editions of it. I suspect what you need is the original DWB 1.0 release that includes the 'typesetter' compiler -- that will bootstrap on a V6 system and will create a v6 compiler. I'm not sure we have that in the archives. I think we have the later PWB 2.0 release - that comes without the compiler. Beside the startup code (which is in mch.c and uses a preprocessor macro), > is there anything specific gotchas in regards to models? I tried building > CPU40 and CPU70, and configuring simh, just to eliminate that gotcha, but > the only difference seems to be early initialization code ... > Quick glance is that BBN was running a 45 - so I'd build for that to start. 45s and 70s's are more similar but not exactly the same. Don't build for a 40. They are quite different. Set simh up as a 45 and see if that just works. If not .... then I would drop back and pull everything out to as simple a UNIX as possible... since it's a v6 system without any of the networking -- as much line Ken and Dennis as you can. Configure that a 40 and follow Dennis's and Ken's instructions (which for v6 is a a 40) -- get that to boot and a simh based 40. Then reconfigure as a simh based 45 and make that work. Then and only then turn on the BBN stuff. Feel free to send me email off line and I can try to help a little. Note: I have not played with a 45 in years. But I ran V5, V6. and V7 on 40s, 45 and 70s back in the day. I have a PiDP 11/70 behind me so modulo being way to busy, I can try to help a little. =E1=90=A7 --00000000000062020b05eab4f77b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 4:49= PM Michael Casadevall <michae= l@casadevall.pro> wrote:

There are = SCCS references in the code from 78/79, references to the V7 CC compiler an= d updates.
Th= e 'V7 compiler' is 'Typesetter C' - it was released two com= piler DWB on V6.

SCCS h= ad a interesting life.
=C2=A0
SCCS was introduced publicly with PWB,
Indeed.

= =C2=A0
which is why I suspect it might have be= en used.
It = might have been at MIT (it was a UCB and CMU BTW) - but I believe Al Nemeth= =C2=A0 - while it might have been a person disk, -- I'm pretty sure BBN= would have tried to kept those bits out of the building. - certainly out o= f the mainstream of any project -- you=C2=A0see in the directories foo.c and foo.c~ files -- this was typica= l of the day.=C2=A0 If you were using SCCS less you would see a lot more ev= idence in the trees (again look at the UCB trees - you can see once Ken bro= ught it to UCB, wnj started to use it).=C2=A0

<= /div>

=C2=A0
The code also = uses some C syntax the stock compiler dislikes (specifically, it was unhapp= y=C2=A0register in the function declaration).
As I said -- I suspect the typesetter com= piler by then.=C2=A0 If userspace code is using <stdio.h>=C2=A0and li= nking libS.a not Mike Lesk's portable I/O library=C2=A0that's a hug= e clue also BTW.=C2=A0 But Dennis did a lot of work to the compiler in the = DWB timeframe.=C2=A0 A number of language features were added, he changed t= he syntax of things like =3D+ to=C2=A0+=3D and the like.=C2=A0 =C2=A0This i= s why code that targets the Typesetter C compiler has a very difficult time= going back to the V6 (or basic PWB 1.0) compilers.=C2=A0 =C2=A0As I said i= n the other message, this was the compiler he and Brian describe in the boo= k - also note a couple of us here reviewed different editions of it.=

I suspect what you need is the original DWB 1.0 release that includes the= 'typesetter' compiler -- that will bootstrap on a V6 system and wi= ll create a v6 compiler.=C2=A0 I'm not sure we have that in the archive= s.=C2=A0 I think we have the later PWB 2.0 release - that comes without the= compiler.

Beside the startup code= (which is in mch.c and uses a preprocessor macro), is there anything speci= fic gotchas in regards to models? I tried building CPU40 and CPU70, and con= figuring simh, just to eliminate that gotcha, but the only difference seems= to be early initialization code ...
<= font color=3D"#0000ff">Quick glance is that BBN was running a 45 - so I'= ;d build for that to start.=C2=A0 =C2=A045s and 70s's are more similar = but not exactly the same.=C2=A0 Don't build for a 40. They are quite di= fferent.
Set simh up as= a 45 and see if that just works.

If no= t .... then I would drop back and pull everything out to as simple a UNIX a= s possible...=C2=A0 since it's a v6 system without any of the networkin= g -- as much line Ken and Dennis as you can.=C2=A0 Configure that a 40 and = follow Dennis's and Ken's instructions (which for v6 is a a=C2=A040= ) -- get that to boot and a simh based 40.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Then reconfigure as= a simh based 45 and make that work.=C2=A0 Then and only then turn on the B= BN stuff.

Feel free to send me email off = line=C2=A0and I can try to help a little.=C2=A0 Note: I have not played wit= h a 45 in years. But I ran V5, V6. and V7 on 40s, 45 and 70s back in the da= y.=C2=A0 I have a PiDP 11/70 behind me so modulo being way to busy, I can t= ry to help a little.
3D""=E1=90=A7 --00000000000062020b05eab4f77b--