From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4C422D38 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:46:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C28DC42A85; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 01:46:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x92a.google.com (mail-ua1-x92a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92a]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECDA542A73 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 01:46:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x92a.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-8101c007e2cso242902241.3 for ; Wed, 03 Jul 2024 08:46:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1720021588; x=1720626388; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KUWrSY5/AVz3bgtVtDdlEcbiYv9MLavYGvwqNwVb50Y=; b=nxba1aK19WMlAydmz3L+Ttr57ZBGeKKFmdvVr6cSrSUQM3EDZjC3oD1WgyhfmkZTbn Ue47WKa0DcL1hq2nAiJGiVymFSW//gW5OVpzIM/JpFYD26XCMtWYlHuMTzlVh4rNHXpD HhraEh7y+7P/HAybT9y3Ekh3DZQtwO2Mo3fBg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1720021588; x=1720626388; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=KUWrSY5/AVz3bgtVtDdlEcbiYv9MLavYGvwqNwVb50Y=; b=f/KY1V34twTpepoYnyJ/dr9UPGo16m5PA9UPqznFP3RaFLcEBuetfcqzddAtIBS3PX y90ORrUI8c/I1mKE2DPiY0QUULN00uXh9swqRAmAPyMhd+s3VoCA7hA/I1Eil4MF3NGp Jt0WoVYhHmQOjy6780yxP1mePZKK1EsPtnbFYAxDFQaAwXDT2UpzRXNkybTYYz6QoUTE wDm93QTkqm3I3D3nxHhrXyBfGPdc6vLafxnWNgWZ2gf2swmG5CSNHwDQ3KokHQ8kW+lu rG9qr0XAuji9J1sISw48wOegqueMiR6MX7uTCNv/ORrpjKbBXpyEi8QnEc3lDSZtu01z gnxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx8GtWtndu8UrQOZFjn5bosc8MRr8tMGYzV+xFvgg+LmovXpjjm FxHtw+fbnKKNIsF3YnQAgyN41HCxpj94aqA0zyWTRivL81VU4c3/NmmQ/AJsMmv2fctEkTWQkR1 aMCyy2S3PJXp3QsS80UVRF9x8i+LCkxPm2GnIE+/H8vuYdCvoig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFfLMTKX8n11HVDOD7m5fxm6s4WcOUVs1dazYWKbH6tIbt4yU/xu31DR9eUg1wEJHttQZqrQ+22Ui9WckYtwDM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:270b:b0:4ed:145:3489 with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-4f2a56f27f8mr14379930e0c.13.1720021586328; Wed, 03 Jul 2024 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 11:45:50 -0400 Message-ID: To: Norman Wilson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8d6a0061c59bbd6" Message-ID-Hash: 3H34W4T364E6S3ZMN2SZAINVSE4TMJCB X-Message-ID-Hash: 3H34W4T364E6S3ZMN2SZAINVSE4TMJCB X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000a8d6a0061c59bbd6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM Norman Wilson wr= ote: > Steve Jenkin: > > I've never heard of a Computer Science or Software Engineering program > that included a `case study' component, especially for Software > Development & Projects. > > [...] > > How about the course for which John Lions wrote his famous > exegesis of the 6/e kernel? > > Norman Wilson > Toronto ON This >>might<< be far from an OS >>developer<< perspective [*i.e*., for a practitioner of SW development for an OS]. However, I'm quite sure it is the same thing. In Lion's case, he looks at the code and final system in the same manner to examine the technical output/result (a complete timesharing system than in "modest HW", that a single person could understand as it was less than 9000 KLOCs). This is like an architecture class might take apart drawings of Notre Dame Cathedral to examine how the structure was developed to carry such huge loads of stone, wood, and lead but still allow so much light in the building (such as the class on my CMU roommates who became a restoration architect for buildings like 30th Street Station in Philadelphia). Case studies (which originated at HSB and are now de rigor in most B-schools) look at the choices made, given a set of initial conditions to create a (business) result [positively and negatively]. What could be learned from the conditions, choices, and results so that feature (business) leaders can recognize what might not be obvious? The idea is that you are teaching managers about choices that change/predict a future outcome. This is not the same as field practitioners trying to make a structure/machine/program to >>operate<< to do some design function. So, the place where a case study for SW projects (using books like Mythical Man Month) would be helpful is an in-software engineering course. Writing an HSB style case for something like UNIX, or Tenex or maybe Oracle; particularly to compared to something like Brook's book would be fascinating to read, I'm not sure Lion's text qualifies. I think the content of such a "case" would be quite different. Again, it comes back to what "success" is. If success is defined as winning the market, OS/360 was a huge success, as was DOS. But neither would I consider a success from the standpoint of building something that future generations of programmers would want to learn to emulate. =E1=90=A7 =E1=90=A7 --000000000000a8d6a0061c59bbd6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On W= ed, Jul 3, 2024 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM Norman Wilson <norman@oclsc.org> wrote:
=
Steve Jenkin:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I've never heard of a Computer Science or Software Enginee= ring program
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that included a `case study' component, especially for Sof= tware
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Development & Projects.

[...]

=C2=A0 =C2=A0How about the course for which John Lions wrote his famous=
exegesis of the 6/e kernel?

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
This >>might<< be far fr= om an OS >>developer<< perspective [i.e., for a practiti= oner of SW development for an OS]. However, I'm quite sure it is the sa= me thing.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In Lion's case, he looks at the code and final s= ystem in the same manner to examine the technical output/result=C2=A0 (a co= mplete timesharing system than in "modest HW", that a single pers= on could understand as it was less than 9000 KLOCs).=C2=A0 =C2=A0This is li= ke an architecture class might take apart drawings of Notre Dame Cathedral = to examine how the structure was developed to carry such huge loads of ston= e, wood, and lead but still allow so much light in the building (such as th= e class on my CMU roommates who became a restoration architect for building= s like 30th Street Station in Philadelphia).=C2=A0 Case studies=C2=A0(which= originated at HSB and are now de rigor in most B-schools) look=C2=A0at the= choices made, given a set of initial conditions to create a (business) res= ult [positively and negatively].=C2=A0 =C2=A0What could be learned from the= conditions, choices, and results so that feature (business) leaders can re= cognize what might not be obvious? The idea is that you are teaching manage= rs about choices that=C2=A0change/predict a future outcome.=C2=A0 This is n= ot the same as field practitioners trying to make a structure/machine/progr= am to >>operate<< to do some design function.
=
So, t= he place where a case study for SW projects (using books like Mythical Man = Month) would be helpful is an in-software engineering course. Writing a= n HSB style case for something like UNIX, or Tenex or maybe Oracle; particu= larly to compared to something like Brook's book would be fascinating t= o read, I'm not sure Lion's text qualifies.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think the= content of such a "case" would be quite different.=

Again, it come= s back to what "success" is. If success is defined as winning the= market, OS/360 was a huge success, as was DOS. But neither would I=C2=A0co= nsider a success from the standpoint=C2=A0of building something that future= generations of programmers would want to learn to emulate.
=3D""=E1=90=A7
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